True. The Sanford and Carter paper glosses right over the fact that when a virus jumps from an animal to a human population, that involves mutations which make the virus more fit for a new environment. Fitness is about the relationship between the organism and its enviroment.
1 Like
It’s a very solidly coherent explanation for why death & extinction are inevitable. Life is grinding down just as the universe itself is grinding down over time and will eventually experience heat death. This is what God promised would happen if Adam and Eve disobeyed.
The fact such reverse mutations happen at all is a conclusive disproof of your claim “mutations can’t add information”. Oops!
1 Like
Neither PDPrice nor Giltil understand a mutation can only be judged deleterious, neutral, or beneficial WRT the organism’s local environment. They seem to think some mutations have little “D” stamped on them which makes them bad no matter what changes happen to the environment. They also seem to have no concept of how natural selection works.
2 Likes
They may be inevitable eventually when the sun goes nova but that’s a few billion years away. Meanwhile life has been on the planet doing just fine for the last 3.5 billion years. You and Sanford and Carter keep ignoring that inconvenient fact.
And that is theology, not science.
1 Like
Then why haven’t the pairs of animals who got off the Ark all gone extinct yet? Many have increased in population size into the million with no sign of slowing down. Even your own Flood story directly contradicts your GE claims. 
1 Like
We understand the fundamentals of what Sanford is claiming about GE just fine. His claims are just based on false premises and are completely wrong. Lots of people have been explaining to you in detail why they are wrong but you have tuned out all the negatives about GE you don’t want to hear.
2 Likes
No, it isn’t. That’s what you’re reading into it, but that’s not what it says in the book. There is nothing about heat-death, thermodynamics, or Genetic Entropy in the Bible. That is what you’re rationalizing what the words actually literally say, to mean.
1 Like
Instead of the silly rusted car analogy lets deal with some rear scientific data, shall we?
Here is a landmark study published earlier this year on the genetic history of the modern horse. Researchers compared the sequenced genomes of several hundred extant and ancient preserved horses going back as far as 42,000 YBP. They put together a fascinating story of how different horse lineages from different parts of the world mixed, and how domestic breeding in the last 2 centuries has drastically affected genomic diversity. It’s the largest genomic study of any non-human animal yet produced.
Tracking Five Millennia of Horse Management with Extensive Ancient Genome Time Series
Fages et al
Cell, Vol.177, Issue 6, p1419-1435, May 30 2019Summary: Horse domestication revolutionized warfare and accelerated travel, trade, and the geographic expansion of languages. Here, we present the largest DNA time series for a non-human organism to date, including genome-scale data from 149 ancient animals and 129 ancient genomes (≥1-fold coverage), 87 of which are new. This extensive dataset allows us to assess the modern legacy of past equestrian civilizations. We find that two extinct horse lineages existed during early domestication, one at the far western (Iberia) and the other at the far eastern range (Siberia) of Eurasia. None of these contributed significantly to modern diversity. We show that the influence of Persian-related horse lineages increased following the Islamic conquests in Europe and Asia. Multiple alleles associated with elite-racing, including at the MSTN “speed gene,” only rose in popularity within the last millennium. Finally, the development of modern breeding impacted genetic diversity more dramatically than the previous millennia of human management.
Note that nowhere in this paper is there any mention of “genetic entropy” in any of the horse genomes, or any sign of their genomes “degrading” over time.
If GE is real then why are there no signs of it in the actual genetic data?
As an aside, note this study also disproves the Noah’s Ark story for modern horse origins. Oops again.
1 Like
Oops is right. The Noah’s ark account - which is factual - will be impossible to overturn. Are you possibly looking at the data through your lenses only? By the way, I hope I am not premature about this, but I believe we are within just a few months or short years of positively identifying that vessel.
Feel free to explain all this equine genetic data with your 4500 year ago Flood / Ark scenario.
1 Like
I’d be careful saying this. In fact I doubt there are any surviving remnants of it today. In any case lots of people have made the claim and nobody has so far delivered. And perhaps most importantly is that finding some remnants of it would not change anybody’s mind on the issue.
Well I do understand that that is the pat CMI line, but I am hoping they are wrong. I have been doing some reading up again on it and I really believe it is on Mt Ararat after all (I know, I know, I am sticking my neck out there). And then I am reading again on the covering of pitch and how that vessel will likely survive till the Lord’s coming! (if it’s not completely torn apart by volcanic activity or so deep in ice we cannot find it)
1 Like
Well, there are probably several million people on the fence regarding creation/evolution. My prayer and hope would be that those would fall solidly on our side if that vessel is found.
Or if the wood was not scavenged and reused by people afterward.
Well, I am not against that happening, but I think it’s more likely that “If they refuse to hear Moses, neither will they be convinced if someone should find the Ark.”
You know, we creationists turn out to be the garbage men most of the time. You carefully construct your data and weight it to the point you cause US to have to dig through it and find how you mistakenly arrive at these obtuse (wrong word I know but I dont care right now) long ages. And right now I am just not in the mood to dig through your forced data. Maybe sometime later.
Whew, aptly spoken.
1 Like
No surprises the Creationists here refuse to even look at the equine genetic data, let alone try to explain it or why it doesn’t show any of the claimed “genetic entropy” negative effects.
2 Likes