Bullcrap. The scientific community isn’t baffled over human origins.
I didn’t say it’s baffled over human origins. I’m talking specifically about Gobekli Tepe as being what’s baffling.
“Göbeklie Tepe, meaning “potbelly hill,” has baffled archeologists for years, after it was dated to have been built before modern agriculture or the discovery of metal, despite the multitude of carved obelisks used in its construction.” - https://www.gaia.com/article/archeologists-uncover-200-new-stones-15-temples-at-gobekli-tepe
And? Gobekli Tepe is 6500 years before your Image of God people. Be careful who you say aren’t made in the image of God. For example the original people of North and South America 14,000 years ago.
You misunderstand. The period I’m referring to is a distinct behavior change that closely resembles what’s described in Genesis. In my view, all homo sapiens sapiens are included as being in “God’s image”.
Interesting.
These two articles seem to suggest that violence and interpersonal aggression have always been present based on head and neck traumas and comparative damage to neanderthal, modern human trauma and attacks, and Palaeolitihc human skeletal remains.
Similar cranial trauma prevalence among Neanderthals and Upper Palaeolithic modern humans Nature (2018)
Examining the evidence from small-scale societies and early prehistory and implications for modern theories of aggression and violence Aggression and Violent Behavior (2008)
Genesis is a book of mythology.
In my view the Image of God is made up nonsense used to discriminate against people different from you. That’s how Christian used it in the past: native America weren’t in the image of God. Africans were not either. Be care with your image of God label, there are people around the world who fight you on this.
Neat question, @AJRoberts. We would have to delineate between wounds suffered in self defense in a war for foraging ranges, few and infrequent as those may have been (hunter gatherers would rather avoid each other’s kinship groups, if they can), accidents of hunting, even cannabalism.
Shoe on the other foot; what evidence do you have that H. sapiens, or H. sapiens sapiens, has always been equally agressive and violent with one another?
The Gobeckli Tepe site shows unusual collegiality between hunter-gatherers --who were possibly repentant of their past interrivalries? Upon God’s reconciliative urging?
It’s quite a puzzle! Glad to be working through this. Don’t like the designation “pre-Adamites;” they are “imago Dei” humans populating the earth well prior to Adam.
Are all Americans born before the last presidential election “pre-Trumpists,” for example?
Read Genesis chapter 1:1-2:4a, then full stop.
Then ask youself when the next round of narrative begins. If well after the first has “ended,” then you’ll have read it sequentially.
Yeah, like I said, there’s opposition. But these examples that are cited are so few and far between it’s hard to say that’s just how homo sapiens were. These are similar, in my mind, to when you read a story about dolphins murdering other dolphins. It’s such a rare occurrence, and so seemingly out of character, that it’s seen as strange compared to what’s considered the norm.
I don’t mean to suggest that violence just never happened. I’m more referring to overall behavioral patterns.
I can certainly understand and share your views in regards to how it’s been used in the past. But that’s a separate thing than what the text is saying. What religious institutions have said in the centuries since I’m suspicious of.
I cannot get on board with the idea that the texts themselves are contrived propaganda. They’ve been twisted and used to do all kinds of horrible things, but that’s just what people do with whatever tool they can get ahold of. This is just another tool used for the usual ends.
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I dont know (yet) which side i should be defending.
@AJRoberts, if Adam/Eves’ offspring consistently married “OUT” into the evolved pool of pre-Adam humans, do you and i agree that there is not going to be two “lines” … since it is essentially all of Adam’s kids “doing a full cannonball right into the deep end of the humanity pool”!
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You’re right. Someone here, I don’t recall who at the moment, pointed that out to me. That splitting chromosomes over and over again any characteristics brought about by these individuals would be all but gone in a dozen or so generations.
After all, the long lifespans were all but gone by Abraham’s time, which was 20 generations later. So if the behavior change introduced by Adam and Eve were genetically propagated, they’d be gone too in that time.
It could be something as simple as influence. In the same way the serpent influenced Eve by introducing thoughts of dissension in her mind towards God and His command. He influenced Eve, who influenced Adam. Then Cain, once he was sent from the garden to co-exist with the human population around them, he influenced them. Behavior contrary to God’s will was simply never considered prior.
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The long lifespans of the bible are a myth and complete misinterpretation of the text. No humans have every anywhere near the ages you seem to believe as factual. Life expectancy was very low in biblical times. One in five woman died in child birth and 40% of children born didn’t live to 5 years old. Get your facts straight before talking crap on a science forum.
You know this for certain? Because scores of people in that age and region report the same thing. It’s not just Genesis. The Sumerians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Indus Valley culture, all claim long living god-like beings in their past. An expected result if true.
It’s only assumed these ages are myth. But Adam and his line are reported to have been created outside of the line of naturally evolved humans. Is that not “crap” in your estimation by the same standards? Isn’t that the view of this “science forum”?
What’s the scientific explanation for just a handful of cultures writing stories about immortal beings living among them when no other cultures created stories like that anywhere around the world? Why only in this area? The people actually living the length of lives described in Genesis would be a good explanation for this.
I have plenty of reason to believe I’m not talking crap at all.
Yes, human life spans of more than 130 years never happened and were impossible with the state of technology thousands of years ago. Median life expectancy thousands of years ago was 60% likely to live to 5 years old, with a mean life expectancy of about 30 years old for those who survived childhood with a few elders living into their 60’s or 70’s. Get your facts straight from main independent branches of science.
And through which of these “main independent branches of science” do the stories of Adam discussed on this “science forum” come from?
This stories of Adam discussed on this forum are theology based. They are neither supported nor denied by any evidence from any branch of evolutionary science, archaeology or history.
Right, and considering we’re discussing the Theology-based idea that these long living beings were created apart from naturally evolved humanity, they too are not “supported nor denied by any evidence from any branch of evolutionary science, archaeology or history”.
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Besides, it can be demonstrated. A time line built based on the long lives stated in the text can be lined up to an actual 2000 year span of historical and archaeological evidence in this region to be accurately describing this series of events.
So, in that way, they are supported by evidence in archaeology and history.
I’m not just talking “crap”. I DO have my facts straight.
So me this evidence. And I’ll show you all the mistakes Usher made. And I will show you archaelogical, ancient genomic and fossil evidence which clearly falsifies the 600 and 900 year lives of human beings. Plus you are reading the text wrong. The numbers listed were like badges of honor. Not actual years lived. Identifiers to the level of prestige a man had.
None of this is based on Usher’s take. And I’m well aware of the fossil evidence you’re speaking about. Unless remains have been found of one of only a handful of these immortal beings who existed in this region, then you’re only looking at fossils of mortal humans.
The fact that the timeline lines up with actual history of the region based on those ages argues against the view that these numbers were not actual years lived.