Don’t forget theistic craps. I do like to roll dem bones.
I think that guided evolution helps with your de novo Adam hypothesis. If the transition is guided then population genetics problem may go away. The population genetics problem stems from an assumption of random genetic change.
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Theistic craps are no different from regular craps. The odds are with the house. It really doesn’t matter if God blows on your dice.
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Science cannot reject miracles because there is no scientific definition of what constitutes a miracle and what does not. Science is silent on miracles. It follows that miracles are entirely consistent with modern science.
What say you my freethinking atheist?
Science DOES reject miracles. Miracles are not allowed to be assumed to have happened when doing science. Every fantastically unlikely event must be investigated like it WASN’T a miracle.
Well, I do thank you for that clarification! That makes sense. But I certainly have rejected “random” long ago! If I accepted “random”, I would be an Atheist.
Thanks for the clarity, @Colewd!
You can only say this in the absence of mounds of evidence saying otherwise.
For example, de novo creation of Adam and Eve does not mean the same thing as rejecting all those fossils that show evolution happened to the rest of the Great Apes, including humans.
Miracles can be consistent with modern science.
If science does reject miracles it does so unscientifically.
Since science cannot tell us what is and what is not a miracle, it is nonsensical to claim that miracles are not allowed to be assumed. One cannot assume something that is undefined, and one cannot claim to disallow something that is undefined. That brflglibbets are not allowed to be assumed to have happened when doing science is a nonsense statement.
You’re assuming miracles are fantastically unlikely, something not demonstrated to be true by science. It’s known as begging the question.
No they can’t
If you can find one legitimate, published, professor of epistemology who agrees with that sentence, I will buy you a steak dinner…
Tell me a miracle that you witness and I will tell you the natural cause of that suppose it miracle.
I get why atheists would dislike “Theistic Evolution” but I’m pretty sure most people who would adopt that position would say that it is mostly adding a theistic philosophical worldview to regular old evolution, not as a modification of the science of evolution.
“Evolutionary Creation” seems to have arisen more from a desire for people in more theologically conservative contexts to affirm “God as Creator” as being the primary statement and evolution being the mechanism secondarily.
“BioLogos” was created by Francis Collins to move more in a direction similar to @swamidass but it never took off as a separate camp and BioLogos, as an organization, seems to have just absorbed most of the TE/EC energy.
I think all three of these camps would affirm “God-guided evolution”. Of course the devil’s in the details.
I will give you three.
- My conversion.
- I am no longer a thief.
- I am no longer addicted to pornography.
I would say that these are all miraculous changes in my life.
How about just plain ole evolution when you are talking about the real world. Leave God out of the discussion of science as the God Hypothesis isn’t part of science.
How many times do you have to be reminded?
If we use your criteria, this whole PeacefulScience URL disappears.
So stop playing the Troll, please…
That’s assuming they are mutually exclusive. Many Christians believe many, if not most or all, miracles have natural causes,. They just see other causes and purposes at work.
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Maybe, but it was put forward by one of the least conservative theologians there is on Adam and Eve. No one really bought it.
I’m pretty sure BioLogos was going in a different direction than us, even from the very beginning. They seemed to have absorbed TE/EC, but then they lost it. There are nearly in hibernation now, it seems.
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I’m testing the waters at BioLogos on just this point!
Prior to @swamidass’ departure, finding someone OTHER THAN ME who would champion God-Guided Evolution was like pulling teeth.
Then after Joshua’s exit, it almost became “verboten”.
Now we are all waiting to see what the other shoe dropping sounds like…
I’m not sure anyone will be there to hear it.
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And how many time do I have to tell you that this is Peaceful Science not Peaceful Theology. We discuss Evolutionary Science here. We haven’t gather the top names in Evolutionary Science to discuss whether God guided cosmic rays to Earth to cause God-guided mutations.