Anti-Vaxxer Claims Changes In Immune System Cell Counts After COVID Vaccination Shows Vaccine is A Toxin

So an anti-vaxxer is claiming the following based on reviewing the test results of one individual:

  1. After the first vaccine shot, a person’s % CD 8 Pos. Lymph. count shot up to 40.5 H. The normal range may be 12.0 - 35.5. The anti-vaxxer claims that this count is way too high and that the immune system is actually stressed out due to the vaccine.

  2. After the second vaccine shot the Granulocyte was at 79.6 H with the normal range apparently being 18.0 to 75.0. The Lymphocyte was at 13.8 L with a normal range being 15.0 o 49.0. The CD3-/CD56+CD16+(NKCells)# was 64 L with the normal range being 74 - 562. So the anti-vaxxer is claiming that the numbers show that there is actually tissue damage occurring in the body that is bad. In particular the anti-vaxxer claims the natural killer cells are dropping way too low and this is dangerous.

In sum, the anti-vaxxer is claiming these test results after the vaccine shots show that the vaccine is actually damaging the body and also shows the vaccine is a toxin and not good.

If you understand anything about how vaccines affect the immune system or can address the data and claims here, I would love to have your insight. Also, if you can share any scientific sources that would also be good. Thanks.

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I don’t know the medical details of granulocytes. What I do know is that a large team of scientists tracked the outcomes of disease and death between very large matched groups of control and vaccinated individuals, and found that the vaccinated individuals had immensely better outcomes.

If it were true that the vaccine interferes with the immune system and damages tissues, one would expect the opposite results in the random control vaccine trials.

In other words, your anti-vaxxer friend is missing the forest by looking … not a tree, not even at a leaf, but at a few cells in a leaf. When you step back and look at the forest, you will see that a COVID vaccination leads to more favorable health outcomes during a COVID pandemic.

Best,
Chris

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CD8+ T-cells generally spike following viral infection due to clonal expansion. A Covid-19 vaccine is supposed to mimic SARS-CoV-2 infection in a less dangerous way and so its not surprising his CD8+ count went up. This jump indicates his body has responded as expected to the vaccine. More importantly, his CD8+ count should return to the normal range after a while. Did he share follow-up test results?

Let’s not forget that in a regular SARS-CoV-2 infection, CD8+ count goes up as well. I’d rather have the vaccine do that to me than the actual virus.

Granulocytes and lymphocytes are white blood cells and they increase in number above the normal range following certain viral infections including that of SARS-CoV-2 to help fight those infections. It is completely unsurprising that a vaccine which imitates viral infection will produce a similar effect. In addition these increases are temporary and will return to the normal range later.

I can’t comment on the NK cells, but maybe @Michelle can. In general, the results presented by the antivaxxer aren’t worrisome in anyway.

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Why? 4 parameters barely out of the normal range?

Have the individual tested again 3 weeks after the second vaccination to see if those parameters return to normal. The anti-vaxxer’s hypothesis predicts they won’t.

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Quite honestly this is what amazes me about anti-vaxxers. They have a profound inability to consider that if what they are saying is true, we should notice a torrent of negative outcomes given the number of people that have been vaccinated.

To be honest, I am shocked at how many people no longer seem to have basic rational and logical reasoning capabilities. It seems the thought never occurs to them that if the vaccines are bad, we should be seeing the negative effects all over the place. It’s as if there has been a breakdown in humanity’s ability to reason. What is also clear is that these individuals don’t have the faintest clue how science works. For my friend to seriously think that the attestations of a chiropractor about ONE patient holds as much weight as reams of scientific research to me is quite stunning to be honest. I pray for humanity, I really do.

To be honest, I did not think this was possible in the west. I did not think that people could lie to Western populations and they would believe it to the extent that they would march to their death under clearly false information.

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Yea that’s true.

Yes that’s true too.

A fairly small spike in CD8 cells post vaccine is not indication of anything bad at at all, just that the vaccine is working.

Yup. The degree it deviates from normal is important. These deviations are not very high at all. We see slightly “abnormal” results all the time in perfectly healthy individual.

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Chris_Falter’s reply to @LyghtWayve’s excellent question was outstanding all around—but you really hit it out of the park with an utterly superb analogy:

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