BioLogos and the ASA Workshop

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@T.j_Runyon

Great rule. But it should extend to all organizations as well. DI, RTB, AIG. These are human beings.

Done. I totally agree, and have done the same in my own words (to the best of my ability). The thing is we are figuring out rules on the forum as we go.

@T.j_Runyon thanks for speaking up.

[T.j_Runyon]

You bet. Civility just makes these conversations so much more enjoyable. I have lost so much interest. here lately because of the way people act. I’m guilty of it sometimes. Like right now over on the Biologos forum Cornelious Hunter is being pretty rude and condescending. I don’t want to be around that and it’s made me move on to other things. Let’s just discuss the ideas

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@T.j_Runyon

I have lost so much interest here lately because of the way people act.

Here meaning Peaceful Science? I hope not…

[T.j_Runyon]

Here lately = this point in time. I’m really enjoying peaceful science. Such a wide range of topics. Learning a lot and being introduced to new thoughts and ideas.

[Patrick]

@T.j_Runyon

in what way is Deb a nobody? You call someone a nobody and then say you have no ill feelings toward that person. I’ve seen you bash people repeatedly. So tell me, how are you a somebody? Youre just a jerk, bro.

I describe Deb as a nobody because if she should leave Biologos, Biologos would continue just like it is without her. If Biologos eliminated the President position all together, it would keep going just fine. Deb could easily be replaced by a low-cost administrator and no one would notice. Converse this with a somebody. Ken Ham is a somebody. If the Ham-ster leaves/retires/dies AIG essentially folds. Hugh Ross is a somebody at RTB, Francis Collins, although not involved in Biologos operations is a somebody. If Francis Collins disavows Biologos, Templeton funding would collapse and goodbye Biologos. Not sure if anybody is a somebody at ENV, I would say most are nobody’s today. I am certainly a nobody on this site, whereas Dr. Swamidass is a somebody.

Note, that the terms nobody/somebody is used extensively by the financial and technology industries when evaluating companies. Each person in a company to be acquired is evaluated this way. Yes, it is somewhat dehumanizing but that is way it is done. They literally put a dollar value on each person. This is the way they decide who to keep and who to get rid of and how much to pay. You may call me a jerk for doing this to Deb, but this is a how to evaluate influence/value in cooperative deals.

[Patrick]

@T.j_Runyon

Great rule. But it should extend to all organizations as well. DI, RTB, AIG. These are human beings.

I agree to this with just one exception - Ken Ham.

[cwhenderson (Curtis Henderson)]

@T.j_Runyon

Cornelious Hunter is being pretty rude and condescending.

I am not surprised in the least. I ran across his blog several months ago. He used to post comments and accused me of being “anti-science” in the very first day I was there when I pressed him to provide evidence for his views on the diversity of life we see today.

[Guy_Coe]

This kind of attitude looks bad on anybody… I would hope @Patrick would want to show better character than this fellow:
https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2014/10/14/should-i-have-dinner-with-biologos/
Oops; now, I may have descended into the same hole, myself!

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@T.j_Runyon

in what way is Deb a nobody? You call someone a nobody and then say you have no ill feelings toward that person. I’ve seen you bash people repeatedly. So tell me, how are you a somebody? Youre just a jerk, bro.

@Patrick

Note, that the terms nobody/somebody is used extensively by the financial and technology industries when evaluating companies.

Fair enough.

Still, in the future let’s avoid some conflict by using more clear language, especially in regards to BioLogos. If you feel the need to tell me something “on the line” just message me privately.

And @Patrick I do appreciate the sentiment. You are not being reprimanded. Just negotiating rules for the future.

[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

@AllenWitmerMiller

What I was speculating on was the possibility that participation by one of their people on that particular panel might somehow be overly susceptible to misrepresentation by critics. I try to put myself in Biologos’ position. If I were a decision-maker for such an organization, I might even like to see some topics worked out by other organizations first while I took the time to better develope a delayed response. (Speaking personally, I love to participate in that type of conference discussion panel but they do involve thinking on one’s feet in response to unexpected questions—and my responses are not always as clear and articulate as they would be in my written work.)

Huh. As one of the science panelists, I think I’m probably better off not knowing what all is going on behind the scenes. I’m happy to work with Josh and I’m happy to work with BioLogos, and since I don’t represent anyone other than myself, no one is going to worry about how my participation reflects on my organization. (As for the panel itself, my current plan when asked a question is to panic, freeze for an uncomfortably long moment, and then begin to babble something about the Alliterative Revival. I figure it will be a big hit.)

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@glipsnort

Huh. As one of the science panelists, I think I’m probably better off not knowing what all is going on behind the scenes. I’m happy to work with Josh and I’m happy to work with BioLogos, and since I don’t represent anyone other than myself, no one is going to worry about how my participation reflects on my organization.

Absolutely correct. You do not represent them. This is not about any of the behind the scenes machinations by BioLogos. We are focused on other things here.

@glipsnort

As for the panel itself, my current plan when asked a question is to panic, freeze for an uncomfortably long moment, and then begin to babble something about the Alliterative Revival. I figure it will be a big hit.

Well here is something to prepare for @glipsnort. Turns out that @Agauger took your basic AFS simulation and used it to argue that a “bottleneck” at 200,000 years ago is possible (Ann Gauger's Recent Talk at Biola). I’d encourage you to get up to speed on that argument. The video is linked in the is in the linked thread. It is certainly going to come up in your panel.

[Mark]

Isn’t Ted Davis associated with BioLogos? What does it mean for BioLogos to “attend” the conference?

[TedDavis]

Yes, Ted Davis is associated with BL. He’s not an employee, and never has been. Presently he’s not a Fellow (a regular blogger for hire), since that program ended in Dec 2017. Don’t read anything into that, since there isn’t anything there concerning me or Dennis Venema (we were the two Fellows at that point). I was still writing columns for several months after the decision was made. At the moment, Ted is on the BioLogos Advisory Council.

All of this means that Ted doesn’t make decisions for BL. He doesn’t know what it means for BL to “attend” or “not attend” any given event. For some reason I’m listed (above) on Josh’s panel as a representative of “Evolutionary Creation,” rather than Messiah College–compare this with how others are identified. As always, I speak for myself, as Steve does. While BL obviously embraces the EC view, when I began writing for them several years ago I didn’t commonly use that term. I spoke of it as “Theistic Evolution,” a term in use since at least 1877. I’ve long admired Asa Gray’s position. He used that term in 1880 to identify his own view, and my view is essentially the same. BL would prefer me to use EC when writing for them–which is entirely reasonable–but even so when writing as an historian I typically use(d) the historically established term. In other words, I’m an independent voice, which is (to be fully honest) why I was originally asked to become a Fellow at BL.