That’s rather childish.
I would suggest you go and read this AiG article on Flat Earther’s and why they damage christian outreach:
Now, replace all mention of “flat earth” with “YEC” and you will understand why groups like BioLogos and PS speak out against YEC.
How do you measure this?? Has percentages changed amongst evangelicals,and this due to biologos.?? NONE! among thoughtful people on these subjects biologos has had no influence.
to persuade, as in court, you must, must, allow both/all sides in all issues you talk about to give thier case. biologos censors, censors, censors, with the idea of only allowing those who agree with them or SAFE opponents they can handle.
YEC groups easily allow the best from the opponents.
You can’t rumble if one side is blockaded from the street.
I have discussed these isles with others including on the Duff forum.
these are not persuasive but its not about a thousand articles. Its about a real indluence in modern thought amongst REAL evangelicals who think about origin issues or those who bump into it.
would they allow criticism of their conclusions on biologos? History speaks against this.
i’m willing to go to hawaii to figure out their origin. if they pay!
In my experience (when I use to try such experiments) a non-YEC Christian’s posting on an AIG or Creation Museum or Ken Ham Facebook page lasted an average of 20 minutes at most before deletion. AIG and ICR are among the most censorious I’ve ever encountered.
I come from a YEC background. So I had a lot of years to observe—both from the inside and the outside.
I’m curious. Once you reached the islands of the Hawaii chain, what methodologies would you employ to “figure out their origin”?
Not all argument is BAD. Sometimes the only way two people of widely different views can ever talk to one another is to argue. They may not be doing anything constructive, but at least they are communicating, and that’s a start.
It take more to most on to more useful discussion, of course. It requires some level of trust, honesty, and willingness to consider another point of view from both parties. Not everyone can do that, but some can, and I find it worthwhile to work towards better engagement. Or at least I do on my good days. 
how can you tell? I can tell they ruin the small chance they have.
I want origin forums to blossom as the attrition of truth will gain for YEC.
These dudes are a dud. The control and censorship is the problem ESPECIALLY against creationists.
As usual its these upper class academic types who can’t deal with the real public or their fellow acedemic types. AIG and ICR and others do such a superior job of teaching, persuading, influencing, gaining attention in the media and reaching millions at least a little bit.
Biologos doesn’t have a clue.! I don’t want them to fail because it suits YEC for opponents to bring audiences that normally we don’t get, or easily.
But sheeesh.
AiG and ICR certainly are more popular than BioLogos based upon their total donations. Unfortunately all I learned from these YEC organizations was a significant amount of misinformation, cherry picking, logical fallacies (not about them but how to commit them with nearly everything out of my mouth on topics of Origins/evolution/cosmology etc.) and lies in general about the interaction between science and faith. Thankfully there are organizations like BioLogos and PS that have helped me in many very important ways. To be honest if they didn’t exist, I probably would be an atheist by now as after all, it’s either millions of years or the Gospel.
OH RIGHT … Those public forums of AIG and ICR are so much more open and accepting than forums like Biologos and Peaceful Science. If I want to contribute to those forums … oh wait … AIG and ICR don’t have open forums. They choose to entirely control the content that appears on their sites, and there is no discussion at all. They have the right to control that content - but look to your own house before you complain about censorship in others.
There you make a pretty good point - they do an excellent job of that, at least for their intended audience. It’s a very narrow audience though, and excludes almost everyone who doesn’t already hold to a certain set of beliefs.
Well, to be clear, BioLogos does not have an open forum. I’m currently banned. Last post was on the GAE. That crosses the line it seems.
How can I tell that Francis Collins has influenced Evangelicals? Because when I talk to Evangelicals and I say I’m a scientist, many people bring up Francis Collins (in a positive way), moreso than any other person. Hugh Ross is probably second. So at least in my small sampling it seems to be the case.
Yes I do think that both Biologos and PS help Christians understand that they don’t have to chose between accepting the latest insights of science and their own personal faith. Look how Dr. Collins and Dr. Swamidass continue to excel in the advancement of science yet keep their faith alive and well. Many others here have done the same.
Biologos and especially PS represent a major threat to Christian organizations like AiG, ICR, and DI because there is no conflict at PS between science and each person’s personal faith. Since science is neutral on whether there is a God or not, Christians organizations that try to prove God by science are just doing pseudoscience. This really harms the Christians they are trying to reach. Christians need to realize that it is science and human reasoning that are enhancing their lives. Freedom of thinking for ourselves is our greatest freedom. Christian organizations like the above want to limit how Christians are suppose to think and reason. They want to tell you THEIR answers to YOUR questions.
And you are supposed to accept their answers because, well, they have some special insight into the mind of YOUR personal God. At PS, each of us thinks for ourselves. In this way PS is a great humanitarian service for all the come here. Nobody here is going to tell you how to think. You have to do that for yourself. Freethinking will make you a better Christian, where YOU and only you gets to decide what a good Christian is or isn’t.
I have no knowledge of the inner workings at Biologos, I just know that your being banned there seems very odd. Reviewing that history doesn’t seem like a good use of time.
No Internet forum is completely open, except maybe for one with no regulation at all. I suspect even forums like 4chan have some boundaries, written or unwritten. Writing those rules down so everyone knows what to expect is a good idea, but (as you know) it’s hard to cover all possibilities.
My point is, a site or organization with a forum is inherently more open than one with no forum at all. GAE can tolerate criticism, and I’m sure there will be lots of that coming. Sites like AIG, ICR, and DI have no forums because they make certain assumptions which must not be questioned.
I agree with this.
I agree also with this.
I disagree… how do you measure this?? Especially juxtaposing it with the total lack of dialog at AiG…
I don’t think we should avoid making this thread into an assessment of BioLogos.
I have common ground with them, but also some serious disagreements about their values. Without getting into details, I agree that BioLogos is certainly NOT about humility and gracious dialogue, at least not how I define these virtues. I’m sure, nonetheless, that they are better than many YEC organizations, but not all.
And AiG is.
Do you think AiG practices this, Robert? Does AiG allow those who disagree with them to post to their Facebook page?
On their Facebook page they don’t allow anything from their opponents. In their articles AiG authors do not link to the articles they are criticizing. This is completely contrary to good web etiquette, but it does have the effect of not encouraging AiG readers to consult any sources that disagree with AiG positions.
Does AiG host a forum like Peaceful Science or Biologos, where young earth creationists can and do post frequently?
Whether or not AiG is right in their stance on origins, they are definitely leaders in blockading the views of those they disagree with. Meanwhile, PS here and Biologos on their forum welcome debate from every perspective.
The facts are so overwhelming in this situation that I do not even understand how you can claim what you claimed, Robert. Please address the lack of a forum on AiG’s website and the practice on their Facebook page of deleting any questions from thoughtful critics.
Best,
Chris
@Chris_Falter, I’m sorry, but this just is not true. One of these organizations does not welcome supportive posts about the GAE. Why do you think that is?
2 posts were split to a new topic: GAE and BioLogos
And we’re just getting warmed up!