Dale, Rich, and Greg discuss providence and Genesis

So your version of what Scripture necessitates, in both the order of creation and Joshua’s long day, is not what actually happened, but appeared to have happened from the perspective of a naive human being. The earth is younger than the Sun, Moon, and stars, but they only became visible the following day/age. Likewise the Sun (really the Earth) and Moon never ceased moving in their orbits, but a localized mirage made it appear so. Is this correct?

And do you understand that according to Scripture Christians will physically inhabit the physical earth where the sun will no longer be in existence? Have you ever studied the parallels between the first and last books of the Bible? These are astounding! So if your concern is the timeframe in which God created the sun, then worry no more. Revelation holds the keys to an answer.

I must have missed it. Are you a YEC?

You seem to have avoided answering my question.

Not at all. My argument with you stems for your disagreement with me about how we sometimes can figure out how God does things through the use of Science.

I believe in the works of the Holy Spirit. Im sure you do as well. No pun intended, but God compares the works of the Holy Spirit to the wind because He has a will that is unpredictable and always changing in works accomolished. I respect this. So in my mind, God’s Spirit could cause the sea to part using wind, or supernaturally, or placing a mountain to dam the water, or ______________. You name it. What God wont do is expect things that are specifically designed by Him to function in ways running contrary to His design for them. If this occurs, then we can safely assume that He directly manifest His supernatural power as He transcends the natural realm.

All I’m saying is that his typical M.O. is to not break natural laws. Of course he does on particular occasions. That is not in question.

That would be called virtue signaling.

It is not God honoring when you turn the truth he reveals in the testimony of creation into a lie.

Can you elaborate on that?

This is the source of the argument.

So if you believe Scripture describes how things appeared to be and not how they really were/are (as per the 2 previously discussed examples), then the implication is that Scientific descriptions of cosmology and Newtonian physics, at least in part, lead you to this conclusion.

That is certainly an unfair and inaccurate spin.

(This in itself was providential timing):

Somewhat over three decades ago when I was taking my boys to school one chilly morning, we saw a grain elevator some seventeen miles distant, normally barely visible, but now it was way larger and floating well above the horizon. If I recall correctly (and that is not at all a given, given my advancing years :slightly_smiling_face:), we dropped my older son off at the junior high school and retraced our route, going a bit longer distance than we normally would have to take my younger son to the elementary school, to see if the phenomenon was still visible at the only place where we had seen it. I believe it was, some ten minutes later.

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Have you experienced special providence in your life?

Im glad you recognize that Gods ways are not ours. Please know that we are all here in this discourse in the same boat. We are all just people who are imperfect sinners who are really small in scope of knowledge compared to God. We as Christians have exactly one manual called the Bible that reveals truth as interpreted in correct context within itself. We are the ones who take what is simply stated and relatively easy to process meanings and politicize it w agendas, movements, new slants in order to sell books on new ideas etc. So im not “virtue signaling” but just cautious to allow Gods revelation to speak for itself w no agendas, start ups of new denominations etc. And since faith does not come from the scientific interpretations of the physical world, but rather from Gods Word consummated in Christ, i choose not to place my faith in fickle mainstream science but rather in the Word of God!

You suggest creation speaks to you. This is just as simpleminded as to suggest that a written historical account about George Washington is fact. Never! It is an interpretation just as your view about the nature of our earth is not fact but your interpretation.

So there you go. Your it. But im gonna hit the hay Dale and catch up more later. Good chatting w ya.

I don’t consider the grain elevator story to be an act outside of nature requiring God’s intervention. In other words, it seems to me an ordinary example of General providence, of which every moment and experience of our lives is an valid example.

There are multiple uses of the Biblical Hebrew word for an indeterminate period of time, ‘yom’, that period of time determined solely by context, and only traditionally translated “day” when associated with the six creation periods delineated in Genesis 1. The context in Genesis 1 is unique in all of scripture, the very creation of the universe, space and time itself, and it happened ONCE. A plea to a meaning in another later context is illegitimate …and simpleminded.

It was a gift to me and my sons.

Have you experienced special providence in your life?

By your definition, lots. I’ve seen double rainbows, snow fall in Los Angeles, and probably lots more rare phenomena that i’ve forgotten. But a gift just for me? Well, unless God told me so, i wouldn’t presume. To date, God hasn’t spoken to me, and that’s ok.

That makes it a little harder to converse about the subject, then. Are you familiar with any examples of special providence in people’s lives?

This may need a @moderators split.


Or two. :slightly_smiling_face:

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