Death before the Fall

Do you have anyone close to you dying of cancer? Have you ever suffered physically…i mean really suffered? If you think that the conclusionary statements God puts out after creating forms in the beginning that are "good, good, good, good, good, good, good then capped off as “very good” have any pertinent relationship to a paradigm of death, disease and suffering, then you are free to think this way if you will. I disagree w you. I say this not in support of a yec parachurch. I say it in support of the sense i get in Scripture. And the sense i get in Scripture adds to the priority of the gospel that saves us and takes us into life on this planet wiped clean of sin for eternal existence there and beyond once again full of good good, very good and absent of death, disease and suffering.

And never ‘pefect’.

The use of the semantic “there is morning and evening” seem to define “yom” as a day like the 24hr day we are having right now.

24 hour days are measured from the same time of the day, ‘morning to morning’, or ‘evening to evening’. I know woman, who, when she was a new Christian, thought that creation days were only 12 hour days, and the creation ‘week’, only 72 hours.

Earth’s morning has long since passed and its day nearly spent. Its evening will be over when the bright Morning Star returns.

A wise person once told me to try to erase preconceived theological views and let the scripture speak for itself when trying to understand what it says. I a different hand i challenge you to try to let go of any notions of how old the earth is as supplied by the likes of the mainstream scientist and read early Genesis and see what it speaks to you. This wont be easy, so i recommend prayer to help. When reading this way for me, the sense i get is this creation took a week not too long ago.

I repeat, the truth that comes from the reality of God’s word does not conflict with the truth that comes from the reality of God’s creation.

(Your condescension and presumed Christian maturity do not help your case.)

(I used to be a YEC.)

But Gods word is always true and there is no “reality of God’s creation” rather just interpretations of this reality. Remember God questioning Job? He asked him sarcastically, “were you there?”

Interestingly, in church this am our pastor starting a new sermon series on Acts. Im pumped! He spoke about Dr. Luke of course being the author and brought up how Luke was an intense researcher. Here is what Luke writes to theophilus in Luke 1. “Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us,”

Notice that in Lukes research he interviews eyewitnesses in the beginning. When it comes to our creation, there was only One there in the beginning to tell us and that was God. I bet we could come up w a thousand scenarios that confound the science of man over the age of the earth. So i think i will stick w Gods personal testimony as the best most legit history.


God’s word says there is and you deny it. This is not make-believe:

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.


Learn the difference between sarcasm and irony.

1 Like

@Greg, Greg, Greg

Point 1: I think Irenaeus was passingly familiar with Romans 5.

Point 2: Genealogical Adam accommodates Romans 5 without even flinching. Genealogical Adam includes an historical Adam and Eve, their Sin, their expulsion from Eden, and their offspring eventually including all the humans alive by the time of the birth of Jesus.

Point 3: But Genealogical Adam, like other Biblical interpretations, can also work for those denominations that don’t care much about Romans 5. Which means it is up to each individual believer, as always, to decide how to embrace the role of Adam and Eve.

Yes, @Greg, I will say “you are welcome” in anticipation of your grateful acceptance of Joshua’s labors.

Yes! One of my favorite scriptures! Creation is for sure has a reality. But then we have men who attempt to interpret this reality in the form of the science of man who tell us that creation of human kind occurs by the turmoil and strife within a survival of the fitest, selection of the random chance mutations from the lower animals. This picture is completely in contradiction to Scriptural definition of God and His works. I realize that you are a creationist and not an evolutionist. But you must realize that an old earth interpretation is a friend of evolutionism and a young earth a friend of the most sensible Genesis interpretation as well as understanding of the good, loving just, and holy God who cannot create evil but who did create us in short order and called it “very good”

You just contradicted yourself.

But not a true one.

And is not God sovereign over time and ‘chance’? Christians who believe in evolution also believe God’s providence. You do not, apparently.

1 Like

Exactly. He did not call it perfect.

1 Like

You miss the point. You were insinuating the the reality of creation is that it is an old creation. That is an INTERPRETATION and not necessarily the reality itself. Do you understand the point i was making?

You mean offsping hybridized with humanoids evolved from ape like creatures. If this is what this is, you make a mockery of God and humankind who were created in His image.


Are you 12 years old? Have you ever read anything by me or Joshua stating such things?

God guided human evolution to produce a human population (sometimes referred to as pre-Adamite humans) with God’s image (as specified in Genesis 1).

God made a special effort to create Adam and Eve for tending to Eden (as specified as Genesis 2).

My personal opinion is that Adam and Eve were specially created 6000 years ago, and that the pre-adamite population was virtually identical genetically and physiologically and neurologically to Adam and Eve. How many other types of humans do you think were around 6000 years ago, Greg?

When Adam and Eve sinned, they were expelled from Eden and joined with their fellow humans, virtually indistinguishable from Adam and Eve - - except for the stories Adam and Eve could tell!

You can take your wild-eyed fantasies about sex with Hominids to some other blog site.

1 Like

I liked it just for this one sentence. :rofl:


Very immoral in New Jersey. You should go to the Supermarket or restaurant for your food like the rest of us. :sunglasses: Leave the deer alone.