That is not the definition of “intelligent design”, but a projection of its likely intellectual effects. The definition of intelligent design is found in several places on the Discovery website, and I have probably linked to all of them before. But as I was making just a smiling observation, there is no need to pursue this.
There was no rake. See my reply to Aquaticus in the paragraph above. It’s bad enough that you never accept the standard definitions of words such as “creationism” and “insurrection”; now it seems you don’t even accept the standard definition of “definition.”
Thank you for taking the trouble to explain. Sure, someone acting like a son and a father could be called a son and a father (sloppily). Heck, I’m a son and a father myself so this is not puzzling. Since I’m a brother as welI, I am actually a father, a son and a brother all at the same time. However, I can’t be all of that to one and the same person. Claiming that God can be that is one place where the Trinity just flies off the rails. The words simply lose their meaning.
How about a quote from somebody from the 2nd Century: 2nd Century Christian apologist Origen wrote "…these do not contain a pure history of events, which are interwoven indeed according to the letter, but which did not actually occur. Then he gives an example in Genesis which relates that the Sun, Moon and stars didn’t appear until later in the creation week. Origen says, “A curious anomaly, introduced deliberately so that we won’t be tempted to take it literally, so will be forced to seek a deeper meaning in the text than one that immediately suggests itself. We could approach the numerous Gospel contradictions in a similar spirit.”
Did you ever actually read Origen or are you actually quoting somebody else quoting, perhaps even paraphrasing, Origen? And how does that turn the bible into an astrological allegory?
Origen’s writings are online for everyone to see. So are some of Celsus and his criticisms of Christianity: "“We see, indeed, in private houses workers in wool and leather, and fullers, and persons of the most uninstructed and rustic character, not venturing to utter a word in the presence of their elders and wiser masters; but when they get hold of the children privately, and certain women as ignorant as themselves, they pour forth wonderful statements, to the effect that they ought not to give heed to their father and to their teachers, but should obey them; that the former are foolish and stupid, and neither know nor can perform anything that is really good, being preoccupied with empty trifles;…”
As you can see nothing much has changed as far as Christian evangelism. Get 'em young before they develop critical thinking skills. Stop the indoctrination of children and Christianity dies in twenty years. It’s already circling the drain.
The whole Bible had originated and still is and will forever be an astrological allegory. No one will ever disprove that and the apologists’ efforts to do so are laughable. It was and is the Christian religion that has tried to make the Bible into history. It took an immense amount of violence and censorship over many centuries to accomplish this goal but again those days are just about over.
IF we could throw a switch to stop the indoctrination, part of Christianity might go away, but likely to be replaced by something even worse. IMO that something worse probably resembles the most extreme of fundamentalism and nationalism we see today. Like it or not religion plays an important role in society, and if you simply take that away, something else is going to fill that vacuum.
Now after crossing the sea the Israelites came to Shor, the Place of the Ox but couldn’t find any water. So, they went to Elim or the Place of the Rams where there were twelve springs and seventy date palms. Here we have the clue that these are not actual places on Earth but rather based on celestial occurrences in the heavens. The first enemy the Israelites met were the Amalekites who like the sea the Israelites crossed and land they came upon cannot be found in the historical record. Their territory (also not on any maps) is called Havilah which extends from Shor the Place of the Bull and is a word for the concept of “circular motion.” So the Amalekites represent the zodiacal sign of Taurus. Their ways and traditions define them as a group who refuse to enter the new era of Aries therefore, they must be annihilated. A battle ensues at Rephidim which means “supported.” The ridiculous nature of this encounter is not to be ignored. The biblical writers were well aware of their audience’s critical sensibilities. When Moses raises his staff which represents the celestial poles, the Israelites have the advantage but when he tires and the staff disappears from view the tide of the battle favors the Amalekites. Moses, Aaron and Hur represent Orion’s Belt which in turn represents accurate measuring. This battle is a metaphor for an intellectual conflict over the fallacious ideas of the past based on incorrect interpretations of the sons of God or the Watchers. In other words, the stars.
Bibliography: Oedipus Judaicus: Allegory in the Old Testament by William Drummond. First published in 1811.
What would you consider “real” evidence? Why don’t you look this stuff up yourself? There’s no shortage of information. There’s always iconography which you could look up yourself. There’s no real evidence to support the Exodus and Conquest and that’s also true for the trial, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. So, what are these stories really about?
For the most part even with young people who identify as Christians, religion doesn’t play an important role in their lives or society. I don’t think there ever was a “place” for religion which is why the major religions had to force themselves onto civilization with so much violence. So, when they’re gone there won’t be a vacuum. In Europe and Scandinavia, the long term and accelerating secularization shows no sign of slowing down and some countries already have a non-religious or ‘Nones’ majority. I don’t see an extreme of fundamentalism and nationalism in those countries.
Are you suggesting that Christians have the freedom to believe in their own interpretations regarding the true identity of God?
The abundance of warnings in the Bible regarding false teachings indicates the importance God places on this issue. It demonstrates His concern for ensuring that people have a correct understanding of truth and avoid falling into misleading beliefs.
The phrase “other gods” can encompass both real deities and imagined entities that do not actually exist. The Bible itself acknowledges the existence of the former category, as mentioned in my original post. Here’s it again👇
I’m afraid you made an incorrect assumption by assuming that the ‘lord’ mentioned in Romans 10:13 refers to Jesus.
Yahweh is referred to as ‘lord’ in the Bible, and Jesus is also addressed with the title ‘lord.’ In fact, in the new testament, the term ‘lord’ (Greek: Kurios) is used to refer to a broad category of individuals.
Throughout the NT, there are instances where verses from the OT that mention the name ‘Yahweh’ are quoted. The example you provided, i.e. Romans 10:13 is among these quoted verses. In all of these quoted verses, the Greek word Kurios, meaning ‘lord,’ is used in place of the name ‘Yahweh’. It is a mistaken assumption to believe that the ‘lord’ mentioned in those verses are referring specifically to Jesus.
Another example, a passage from the gospel of Matthew provides further clarity on this matter. Matthew 22:43-44 reads: “He said to them, ‘How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him “Lord”? For he says, "The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.”’”
In the above passage, we can see Jesus himself quoting an OT verse (psalm 110:1). Two distinct lords are mentioned here. Lord denotes ‘Yahweh’ and Lord denotes Jesus. The verse itself indicates that these two lords are separate entities, as one lord speaks to the other lord.
I strongly believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is a human invention. As I described in my original post, there are two key reasons for my conviction: Firstly, the identity of the true God is of utmost importance, yet there is no scripture in the entire Bible that explicitly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. Secondly, the Bible actually presents explicit teachings about the true identity of one God, and these teachings are in direct contradiction with the doctrine of the Trinity.
The subject of canonicity of biblical books is a complex topic that deserves a separate discussion thread. However, for the purpose of this post, I assume that the present accepted canon, consisting of 27 books, is considered the inspired word of God. This post is specifically intended for Christians who share this belief.
I strongly believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is a human invention.
One could make the argument that all of Christianity is a human invention. This isn’t a slight on Christianity per se since that argument can be made equally re Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc., each created to deal with imponderables throughout history. But heaven forbid I be accused of raising a God of the gaps argument…
How do you know the assumption was incorrect? Your argument at best shows that it can be interpreted another way, not that it must be interpreted another way.
You seem to be assuming that because the identity of God is so important, if the doctrine of the Trinity is true then it would be explicitly stated in Scripture. How do you know that your assumption is correct?
I don’t see that they are. The verses you present say that God is the Father; that only contradicts the doctrine of the Trinity if you already assume the doctrine is false!
It turns out that I got my date of September 11th 3 BCE for birth of Jesus in a commentary on the Book of Revelation. However, if you had just done a little research on your own you could have found two videos by Christian ministries that show how they arrive at that same date.
Just Scripture Ministries
Jesus Birthday: Sept 11, 3 BC
Revelation 12, Astral Prophecy and the Birth of Christ on 911
Both of those ministries hold to a belief that Jesus was a real person.
Also, there’s short video by Age of the Storm which specializes in Astrotheology and holds to the fact that Jesus is a metaphor for the sun.
Jesus (sun’s) Birthday - September 11th (9/11) EXPLAINED! Revelation 12:1 Astrotheology. 2020
So what we have is an agreement on the exact birth date for Jesus among believers and unbelievers. So, there you have it.
