Dsterncardinale's Review of Traced by Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson

[Tim]

@thoughtful

From what I’ve seen of the radiation of R1b from western Europe (I’d need to gather more evidence), I would like to argue the exact opposite.

As far as I can ascertain, Valerie, you have “seen” no such radiation.

Jeanson simply assumes, without any evidence, that one of his four tribes carried R1b to the northwest shores of the Black Sea. He then assumes, without providing any details whatsoever, that it somehow spread thereafter to Western Europe and the British Isles.

But as he has not shown how this could have happened, you therefore can’t have “seen” it.

What we have in fact seen is a mountain of evidence that R1b has been in Europe since the Stone Age.

@thoughtful

My hypothesis is that if a new line is even slightly more fertile (possibly because of introducing new variety, or a specific y-chromosome affecting fertility), then it will quickly have the advantage in the larger population it’s introduced into via positive selection and drift.

My hypothesis is that the Moon is made of green cheese.

I have as much evidence for my hypothesis as you have for yours (none at all). This means that I’ve got as much chance of getting my hypothesis taken seriously as you do.

@thoughtful

No, I meant the Lentz and the Bashkirs both have an older Turkic origin.

Except that you have no evidence of this “older Turkic origin” of R1b, and in fact what evidence that we do have tends contradict this. The Bashkir, who straddle the border between Europe and Asia in the Urals have far higher R1b levels than the Turkic groups of Central and North Asia (to their east). That is strongly suggestive that the Bashkirs picked up this gene as they migrated westwards.

To quote Christopher Hitchens:

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Lacking supporting evidence, I am perfectly justified in dismissing Jeanson’s book, your hypothesis, and any further unsubstantiated hypotheses you may confect,^[1] out of hand.

Jeanson’s book provides no more evidence for existence of his radiation of R1b into Western Europe, than The Lord of the Rings provides evidence for the existence of Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits.

Addendum:

We are left with two facts:

1. R1b existed in Western Europe in the Stone Age.

2. R1b exists in Western Europe today.

Yes, it is possible (but only the barest possibility) that (i) the Stone Age R1b population died out – but we have no evidence of this, and (ii) that some other groups migrated into Western Europe bringing R1b back with them – but again we have no evidence of this.

By Occam’s Razor, the simplest, and so best, explanation is that R1b simply continued to exist in Western Europe (being diluted in some areas by migrations of Carthaginians, Greeks, Germans, Norse, etc, etc) throughout history. This, I think, will remain the best explanation until some actual evidence can be found that casts doubt on it.

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1. So please don’t bother sharing them unless you can cite relevant evidence to back them up. ↩︎