EthanW's take on the GAE

Homo sapiens as well as earlier species of the Genus Homo had ever advancing language. Our hearing and speaking organs evolved together and advanced together to more refined vocalizations and refined hearing to those vocalizations. The video give the evidence of the millions of year evolution of language.

Genesis reflects the agricultural technology during the time that it was written. Genesis is written exactly how you would expect it be written to describe the state of agricultural and animal domestication that would have be in the Levant region 2500 years ago. The archaeological record and the genomes of plants and animals confirm this.

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I wonder about that, and I’m not sure. I think we can wonder about God granting a recent Adam and Eve special knowledge in the recent past, but it seems that language existed long before. Perhaps this would make more sense of AE were more ancient, which of course is one way to vary the story.

I should point out that I am not an evolutionary creationist, of course. Perhaps consider being open to evolutionary science instead, which describes a process that God might providential govern.

Looks like, moreover, you are already thinking about a more ancient AE too!


Well, you are missing the issue of the Persian Gulf Oasis. With that in view, it really could be taken literally.

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Beg pardon?

Perhaps read up on this: Exploring a Book Project with William Lane Craig.

Keep in mind that Genesis 2 is describing a define area, not the whole globe.

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I have found nothing in that about rain or anything else we’re discussing in this thread so far. Need more information.

Read the original paper by Rose. Turns out that during this time the oasis was arid, without rain, but with water coming up out of the ground.

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@EthanW , great to see you here! Can you tell us more about yourself?

First off, what is “this time”? How do you fit the garden into Rose’s scenario? And was there indeed a period in which there was no rain at all? What do we suppose “not yet” means in terms of time?

“Not yet” always means not yet within the narrative. The range of time with no rain is pretty large. The paper explains in far more detail. I encourage you to read it.

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@Patrick, you can find my thoughts on language early in my post immediately above.


The central theme of Genesis 2 is an agricultural district. All the other flowery poetry about no rain, and other aspects of the garden (a Tree of Life? a Tree of Knowledge?), is just window dressing.

Naturally, such interpretations would be part of a conversion from YEC-to-Christian-Evolutionist. It is completely up to the person coming to a new position to decide how much of the new position has to be secured by Biblical writings, and what is expendable.

The story of Noah is massive example of more of the same thing.

When, within the paper’s scenario, which extends from the Late Pleistocene, are you proposing to find Eden?

No, the central theme is a garden or perhaps an orchard.

How do you separate the window dressing from the central theme? It seems to me that the Tree of Knowledge is much closer to any central theme than any “agricultural district”.

Any time in that range seems to work just fine. Does not seem to have tight constraints.

So you’re not buying the whole bit about agriculture.

I don’t think there is anything in scripture that requires AE to be the first agriculturalists.

That’s not the issue. Is there anything that requires them to be agriculturalists at all? If so, that rules out a Pleistocene or Paleolithic timing. They must be more recent than that. Not so?

The Persian Gulf Oasis might have been accessible as late as 10 or 8 Kya.