Glenn Morton: Why I Left Young-Earth Creationism

[John_Harshman]

@ambassadorINtraining

John, it is interesting to read your reply “ I believe that everything you said in your initial post is untrue .”
How did you come to that conclusion? Is this just an opinion?

Well, it was slight hyperbole. I’m sure you said some true things. What I referred to specifically was everything you said about science or earth history in that post. Of course that’s an opinion, but I’d say it isn’t “just an opinion”, because it’s backed up by familiarity with the relevant scientific literature.

@ambassadorINtraining

I do believe the Scripture to be true and not contradicting real observational facts in nature.

That would depend on how you interpret scripture. I also detect that you have fallen for the creationist (and it’s unique to creationists) distinction between operational and historical science. There is no significant difference.

@ambassadorINtraining

I don’t think my understanding of Scripture is incorrect

I take no issue with that. You may well be right. But if your understanding is correct, then scripture is wrong.

@ambassadorINtraining

“It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to search it out.”

I have never understood that. Why should concealment equate to glory, and why should kings be the ones to seek it out?

@ambassadorINtraining

I don’t believe the Holy Spirit was intending to confuse or mislead us when He gave us the Scriptures.

Sure. Of course I don’t believe the Holy Spirit gave us the scriptures either.

@ambassadorINtraining

I would respectfully disagree. John Sanford is more than reliable in guiding one in understanding scientific literature.

If you will peruse this site, you will find many instances in which Sanford has distorted or misunderstood the literature. I can personally attest that he doesn’t know how to read a phylogenetic tree, and I know enough population genetics to spot a number of his serious errors there too.

@ambassadorINtraining

Revolution in science appears to be coming from outsiders, who have a fresh perspective.

I’m afraid not. I don’t know how familiar you are with the real biological literature, but no.

@ambassadorINtraining

Josh is a good friend of James Tour, with whom he disagrees on the topic of evolution but he doesn’t use such assertions as you have made about Sanford & Rupert.

I’m pretty sure he agrees with what I’ve said about Sanford & Rupert.

@ambassadorINtraining

Josh doesn’t discount Tour’s knowledge just because he’s not a biologist.

Of course not. You could however discount his knowledge if he shows ignorance on the subject.

@ambassadorINtraining

Both Tour and Sanford surely know their stuff very well and have proven themselves as top scientists & who DARE to dissent from the “mainstream”.

Sorry, but no. Tour knows his own subject, but he appears to have no deep understanding of either origin of life research or evolutionary biology. Sanford has been dissected in detail, again on this very site, and Josh is responsible for some of that.

We could discuss specifics, but this is probably not the thread for that.

[Jonathon_Wright]

I am really glad that peaceful science is around. I have some interesting views and questions. I have several questions regarding the story of Geneis. Actually they are observations. I really need Christian feedback. First, when we read Genesis we are tempted to think that they were the only people in the world. This is an assupmption because the bible focuses on them. However, I ask you to think about the conversation between God and the serpent. I will put enmity between your seed and her seed. The Bible would record her descendants or seed of people but was there a seed of people influenced by the evil one who by the way was cast down to earth after his rebellion?
Second, Cain after he killed his brother was afraid not that his dad would kill him but whoever found him. Third intermarrying of Sons of God and sons of humans. Almost suggest a different race of people. Nephillem was mention in Genesis 6-7; that could be why we have dna markers in regard to Nephillem or possibly Neanderthal. Ham’s descendants in Canaan were also giants. I have much more to say but have alot to learn. The Bible is truly a fascinating book and I believe it has more answers than we realize. This has been some brief thoughts not complete study. I was look for some feed back and doing research for a book I am in the process of writing to make sure I am not off base that is why I am asking for Christian feedback. Thank so much.

[Michael_Okoko]

@Jonathon_Wright

Nephillem was mention in Genesis 6-7; that could be why we have dna markers in regard to Nephillem or possibly Neanderthal. Ham’s descendants in Canaan were also giants

If the global flood story was true, we would not have segments of Nephilim DNA since none of Noah’s family members interbred with them and those giants supposedly perished in the flood.

More importantly, there isn’t any Nephilim DNA in our genome and they are not Neanderthals (who were certainly not giants).

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@Michael_Okoko

@Jonathon_Wright

Nephillem was mention in Genesis 6-7; that could be why we have dna markers in regard to Nephillem or possibly Neanderthal. Ham’s descendants in Canaan were also giants

If the global flood story was true, we would not have segments of Nephilim DNA since none of Noah’s family members interbred with them and those giants supposedly perished in the flood.

No, there are nephilim and descendents of Cain after the flood…

[Michael_Okoko]

@swamidass

No, there are nephilim and descendents of Cain after the flood…

Operating within a YEC framework, the global flood wiped out every human soul on earth except Noah and his family, so that rules out any pre-flood Nephilim and separate lineage of Cain’s descendants getting their genome segments transmitted to post-flood humans.

The Nephilim is mentioned post-flood but there isn’t any consensus on who they were. Some Church Fathers believed they were the result of a second wave of sexual orgies between angels and humans, others believed they were just ordinary men with huge statures. So your ambiguous reference to mentions of post-flood Nephilim doesn’t really help your case. Regardless of one’s position on the issue, there is no evidence these people left any genetic footprint in our DNA.

As for Cain’s post-flood descendants, some think there was a mixing of his pre-flood lineage with Noah’s ancestors, allowing them to continue existing despite the flood.

[Jonathon_Wright]

No, what I am saying is the Nephilim were mentioned in Genesis 6 and associated with the sons of God. Later after the flood the people in the land of Canaan which Ham’s descendant founded. Later the children would first encounter giants in this region. I know it is an argument that cannot be absolutely proven but there could have been some connection between the Nephilim and Ham. He after all was not as virtuous as his brothers Shem and Japeth in Genesis 10. His land was given to the descendants of Shem.