God hid the Aether?

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On my journey to understand Genesis 1 better, after a few month of learning physics via YouTube, I realized recently I’m quantizing Genesis 1. And this view looks a lot different than from our normal human experience. But it’s fun.

I’ve been fascinated with the idea the dimensions we can count now, did not all exist those first few days. And also that light powered everything up: that maybe it was a medium, an aether. I keep looking for it, and seeing the possibilities in dark energy, dark matter, extra dimensions, FRBs, gravitational waves.

But now after the last few days of learning more about Higgs, standard model, antimatter and virtual particles, I’m becoming more settled on the idea that this aether is hidden, maybe virtual after Day 4 - at least as far as we can tell in our part of the universe. It seems like it would explain measurement problems, QFT, QED, a need for quantum gravity, etc. Light sources now emit photons, but really it’s still everywhere - the EM and electron field. My idea is that there won’t be a theory of quantum gravity until scientists work backwards from virtual particles and throw off a few dimensions. :rofl: (hey, this makes sense in my head)

Wondering what others think of this idea.

This verse keeps coming to mind as I think about energy: "that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for ‘In him we live and move and have our being’;[d]

I don’t mean to be woodenly literal - I just really enjoy the metaphor (my undergraduate degree was in English).

And then passages similar to this I find then fascinating, both for the metaphor and the reality, noting that the light and the source are the same thing. “And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.” Rev 21:23.

It’s definitely hard to keep physics and philosophy and religion separate. I can see why it trips up so many scientists. I’m not a scientist so I guess i just can smush them together if I want :slight_smile:

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Your mixing physics with God. That’s doesn’t work. Science is neutral on whether God exists or doesn’t. Science is neither Theistic nor Atheistic. You can’t use scientific inquiry to answer theological questions. It doesn’t work.

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Maybe you mean theological inquiry to answer scientific questions?

I’m sort of working both ways.

I got into videos tonight on nonzero vacuum energy which sorta made sense if this aether is hidden too, I think.

You’re being a bit of a curmudgeon?

Just hoping someone is willing to engage my thought experiments with their imagination. :blush:

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Hi @thoughtful,

Atleast four dimensions existed from the first moment of creation… the three dimensions of space and the dimension of time.
No one knows if more dimensions actually exist.
I am not even sure if the dimension of time as used by Einstein in his equations have anything to do with time as we experience it.

Why not enjoy the scripture for itself instead of imposing all this stuff on it?

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Yes I am. A three dimensional curmudgeon atheist moving through time one second per one second.

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@thoughtful, Have you ever wondered why the physicists here never respond to you?

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No, I really don’t think that’s true. Day 2 is the creation of 3 dimensions of space. If you think it was 3 dimensions of space in Day 1, please check Genesis 1:1-2 and I’d be happy to have that discussion. It would be really fun :slight_smile:

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Verse 2 refers to the earth (land) and waters…
Why do you think space is not there…

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Because it says that the earth is there, but not there - “without form and void.” Basically there’s stuff - but it isn’t shaped in any way we’d recognize. How else would you explain that to your audience? Look at the Hebrew words for without form and void:

Without form:
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8414.htm

Void:
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/922.htm

But verse 2 also says there are “waters” - this implies there has to be at least 2 dimensions for stuff to appear transparent and liquid like water, but still be empty - maybe 3 dimensions.

I’ve mentioned elsewhere on this forum; I think this gives a meaning to Planck scale. The stuff was that small but no smaller. It only had one dimension of space I think. It was stuff that had no mass or charge.

This explains sort of where I was going a month ago. https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/five-dimension-sci-fi-math-thought-experiment/11407/30?u=thoughtful I’ve gotten in lots more physics videos.

But I just realized I’m an idiot. This whole time I’ve been thinking we’re missing the 5th dimension because of light and I was thinking on a large scale - like our solar system, or galaxy, or black holes are 4 dimensions, but we live in 5. But…I never applied that to QFT or EM field, because I didn’t know much about it a months ago. Still don’t know much know but I understand the very basics.

I reminded myself tonight the only reason things are ever hidden is because they exist in a different dimension. I’m really just saying we can’t see light’s 3rd dimension, and we have to guess at it and call it “virtual.”

The fact there there is also a non-zero vacuum energy also makes sense to me - how can that be possible unless it’s there but hidden? And geckos use it to climb walls or something :rofl:

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I haven’t seen many people regularly on this forum labeled as such. If you find a physicist friend, and he or she tells me I’m dumb, that would make me just as happy as someone telling me it makes sense. Then I can move on to a different idea that’s better :grinning:

So please tag someone you know who will tell me my ideas are bad. So far people are just telling me not to have ideas. They’re not saying why they don’t work. That’s frustrating.

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I think he is very politely hinting that your ideas are “bad.” I hesitate to use those terms, and I am sure @John_Harshman does too, because imagination is great, and we don’t want to squelch your enthusiasm.

I think you will find that it will be far more fun to play when you’ve learned a bit more. There is no harm in throwing out crazy theories, but it’s more fun when done from a stronger foundation of knowledge.

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Ok. But doesn’t “bad” have a reason or a standard? Throwing crazy stuff out there is fun for me.

But if it’s just plain stupid, fine; I’d just like to have a reason. 'Cause theoretical physicists throw some pretty crazy stuff out there. Pretty much what I’m doing but with no math or Ph.D. to make me sound reasonable or knowledgeable. :joy: :rofl: I’m not saying I am reasonable to knowledgeable either…haha

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Can you let me know what you were referring to here regarding Hugh Ross and 5 dimensions?

I see he has a book https://www.amazon.com/Ross-Hugh-Beyond-Cosmos-Extra-Dimensionality/dp/B00J5T5AIE, and there’s some things on the reasons.org website but I’m curious where exactly this is addressed.

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This is close to where I’m going, though I wouldn’t fully agree with it 100%. Journal of Cosmology

There’s a domain of light that’s much larger than the EM spectrum as we know it - perhaps that means it has more dimensions.

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It is great to be curious. It is fun to sit around a campfire and throw out the most out there ideas about reality, there is nothing wrong with that. But recognize that is very different from the work of professional physicists.

A physicist has had to learn a lot. Starting with high school, with inclined planes and not so exciting problems such as moments of inertia. Then thermodynamics and electrodynamics, which is getting more interesting but still not near any fringe of knowledge. The math becomes filled with unfamiliar symbols and actual numbers become scarce. Then it gets really hard. What physicists say may sound crazy, but it is rooted in all those years of learning. Now, that does not mean they are necessarily correct; the math can be correct but the physics wrong, but it does mean that in general they do not just throw out completely unfounded ideas. They may be crazy, but they are informed crazy.

The possibility of your coming up with a valid idea in physics which has eluded actual physicists is essentially nil. I am in the same boat - I lack the training and math to make an original contribution. That doesn’t mean that I’m not entitled to my thoughts and opinions on the various debates present in the physics community. I can be a spectator, a fan of a given team, and even possess a good deal of knowledge about the game, but there is no way I’m going to be on the field playing. So as a suggestion, and I would rather be direct than patronizing, you need to spend more time on absorbing the basics before challenging frontiers that the best of human kind has not yet resolved, if you want to be taken seriously.

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Thanks. Give me a suggestion what I’m screwing up here, and I’ll go study it. I’m having fun making wild guesses like a little kid trying to figure out the world. Mostly I’m looking for - hey go study this thing more, or read that book. If had unlimited time and money, yeah, I’d probably go back to school. I am intelligent enough to get a masters and probably a Ph.D in something - I have a lot of interests. For now, this is a fun hobby and I’m enjoying guessing. But if no one’s having fun playing with me, then I’ll guess I’ll be the kid in the corner and not bother the forum :disappointed_relieved:

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Please do stick around and continue to post. I appreciate your effusive enthusiasm and sense of wonder, and would be disappointed if you did not continue your journey here. I only suggest that you study up a little more on some of the more speculative ideas first, so that you display more understanding of terms you are using and how the various concepts relate to each other. YouTube videos have some great content, but books are still a thing. What are you reading lately? Some here might have some suggestions.

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I need to finish Genealogical Adam and Eve and I also bought Einstein’s Dreams as @swamidass suggested first but then I’m open.

I’m mostly watching PBS Spacetime, Sabine Hossenfelder, Alvin Ash, Veritasium on YouTube. I’m finding sometimes they explain things in different ways, which is helpful. I love reading but I’m an auditory learner so I appreciate YouTube for that and the visual graphics which explain the concepts. I am absolutely horrid at ideas of direction, or imagining a point in space - I get lost easily. I need to see a 2D visual or I would have no understanding of the concept.

Lol, I suppose that’s why I like to separate things into various dimensions. 3D+ space doesn’t agree with my brain.

Any book suggestions? Maybe high school, college level?

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@thoughtful let me suggest an approach here.

Why not post an article or blog post that seems informed and you like, and ask questions to understand it?

Proverbs 4:7 is good advice. First seek understanding. :slight_smile:

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Thanks. As a question comes up I just tend to watch the related video in PBS Spacetime. The channel has a ton of content.

My whole goal is just to understand scientifically what may be going on in Genesis 1 - the very basics at least. And I’m finding that physics is a ton of fun along the way. So I’m just exploring possibilities.

Here in this thread it’s just that I think there is primordial light, maybe an Aether that’s different than our EM spectrum. I was just curious if even the possibility had an merit. If it does, isn’t this what ID and YEC proponents should be doing?

Lol, but I keep forgetting to check their websites too, if anyone has fleshed out any ideas of primordial light and extra dimensions related to it. I think the text takes us there scientifically.

I replied above I see that Hugh Ross has written some about extra dimensions. So maybe he has written something I would enjoy if anyone if more familiar with his books?

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