God is the square root of -1.
God is much like i or \sqrt{-1}, a fundamental part of the structure of reality, that that some ignorantly think is a fiction.
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Yes God is much like imaginary numbers, a fundamental part of how the human mind can create abstract tools to explain the structure of reality. Although a fiction or abstraction, some of these fictions can be very useful. Other fictions have outgrown their usefulness.
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Mathematics is only one of God’s means of revealing “Himself.”
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Numbers don’t act. Whatever else God is, He’s an agent.
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Rabanus Maurus was a mystically inclined German monk and abbot. He once said that the number 6 (I think it was 6, rather than 4) was SOOOOOO perfect, that when God uses the number, it’s not because he made 6 perfect … but because God has no choice but to use the perfect 6. (… unless my memory is flawed… and it was 4, ha! )
I think there is something to the comparison of God to i. Both are fundamental concepts for the operation of the universe, and neither of them can be understood as real in the human imagination. The value i is not just a useful fiction, its a fundamental part of the Schroedinger equation, which in turn is fundamental to the basic nature of how our universe functions. I think this comparison is a good illustration of how the unimaginable God underlies the foundation of all that exists, and also how modern science has been coming closer and closer to the mystical and mysterious realities of nature, originally experienced and described by religious people.
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Yes, the use of imaginary numbers is a fundamental tool in electrical engineering. It is incredibly useful. The imaginary parts don’t exist but if it is squared, a real part pops into existence. The real part can be measured and its power can be used for real work.
Guy Cole is right.
@Patrick, @Guy_Coe, @swamidass ,@jongarvey,@sygarte
God is an eternal being that has no beginning and no end. Whether you accept it or not, Nothing + Nothing =nothing. If you have no money, you are not going to be able to reach in your pants pocket and find some there . One can only get a created universe when a Supernatural Being takes nothing and makes a creation out of it. You say that God is the square root of -1. You do not believe in a Supreme Being, but you mention Him. Odd. The only problem is you are using negative numbers below zero. Does that mean that you believe that God created an anti-matter universe, but did not create matter existence? Would anyone but Patrick agree with me here? I mean no disrespect to Patrick and his philosophy. I have no idea why he feels as he does; however, that is his right. I do not believe that the Square Root of negative one works.
I am going to respond as a 1. mathematician, 2. physicist /engineer and 3. a American Capitalist.
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From quantum physics, there is no such thing as nothing. Isolating a cubic meter of space, take out all matter, cool it down to absolute zero, shield it such that no fields are propagation through it and you still would not have nothing nor would the space be empty. Virtual particles and anti particles will be popping into to existence and annihilating. You can measure the net force which will always be outwards. The space itself will grow large while the energy density will stay constant (dark energy). Bottom line no such thing as nothing in the universe.
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All mathematics is abstract. Numbers don’t exists neither does integrals, equations, operations. Imaginary numbers are useful abstract that can be very useful. At one time the God abstraction may have been good for society (I haven’t determined that time period yet) but today is certain not a useful abstraction as it is very divisive and in most cases harmful to society.
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As an American Capitalist, God is like bitcoin and the stock market - potential useful abstractions and some times causing more harm than good.
In my opinion, the God idea is still good. It is not good for you, but it definitely is for me. I wonder if the chief of the blog would let us take a poll. The question would be who believes in God and who does not. Religion will not be mentioned. I am still trying to be a friend, Patrick. I am not trying to force my faith on you and you are not trying to force your philosophy on me. Agreed? We will have to get approval form the leaders on the blog. I will send this to Dr.swamidass. If he approves, it will then be up to us. This will be similar to a news poll.
If you agree to this Dr. Swamidass and Patrick as well as I agree, we will do it. I will not force my philosophy on him and the same can go for me.
Categories: Monotheist, Polytheist, Deist, Atheist, Agnostic, Undecided, The God of Aristotle
Feel free to start a thread to ask, but I think we largely know that most of the people here are Christians of one sort or another, but there is at least one Agnostic and one Atheist. As for the lurkers that visit the forum, there is no way to know for sure. They are not going to participate in a survey.
Also, the group is on a steady path of growth. If we continue down this path, it might be twice as many people in a couple months. A couple months after, it could be many more (e.g. when @AndyWalsh’s book club begins).
At this point, it is critical that we do what we can to include more people. That happens as we invite others, and also treat them well when they come. I have to hold back more on the ID advocates that come this way, for example, and reach out to them after the initial arguments die down, letting them know they are welcome. We have to build common ground with people
Right now, we have about 10 to 20 active users per day. Ideally, we get up to about 100 active users per day within the next year. That is a good milestone for us. At that point, I’ll start to believe we have a real sustainable community. Till then, it could evaporate quickly.
The more people that participate and the more welcoming we are, and easier it will be to grow. That is what we should focus on now.
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God may be a comforting part of your life. If it is and it works for you, I honestly say to stay with it. Faith provides you with meaning and purpose. It is personal to you and I would never want to interfere with that.
What I am mostly against is when God is used to govern in a free society. And when God is used by the majority in a society to set the laws, morals, ethics, and values of the Society. I am very much against that. One’s own purposes and values should be personally driven, perhaps family driven. But it is not for the government to say what is a “sin” and what is not.
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Amen.
The Christian message is one that’s profoundly personal, first and foremost, and is meant to shape everything a Christian does. To the degree that a society welcomes what God values -and that is a tall order, both to discover and to apply well --it will flourish.
But such values are too easily turned inside out when made a matter of compulsory legal compliance, and what too easily gets lost are the profoundly personal values which are meant to be aggregated in free fellowship, which becomes a means to affect society helpfully.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.” – Galatians 5:22-26 NASB
This is adressed to those who are already following Jesus, but it is equally sound across a wide diversity of perspectives, as urging self-governance in the face of difficult circumstances.
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You say you are an American Capitalist; however, a few days ago you said you supported Bernie Sanders, a Democratic Socialist. How can you be a capitalist but support a man who is practically Communist? Interesting. Have a good evening. Oh, by the way, I supported Secretary Clinton.
I don’t want to get into the politics of particular candidates so I’ll just say that the Nordic Model, the economic system associated with Scandinavian countries, is both socialistic and capitalistic. Capitalism and socialism aren’t opposites. So I’m not quite sure what you mean.
Yes, as a long term seasoned investor, I am now at the stage of life (and wealth) that I can afford to be a liberal Independent like Bernie Sanders. Sort of like Nelson Rockefeller was a liberal Republican. I am very much for social programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, SSI, Moderate and low income housing, no interest student loans. I feel it is societies responsibility to make sure everyone has the basics of 21 century life - proper nutrition, housing, education, medical care, retirement income. This is where I think today’s Evangelist Christians have lost the high moral ground. To me, the northern countries of Europe has jettisoned Christianity for a society with secular social values that provides to everyone much more than the US does. Why are today’s American Christians against most of these programs.