Günter Bechly on Origins

Wikimedia is the overarching parent company, wikipedia is one of their projects, so is wikispecies (species.wikimedia.org).

For the purposes of this discussion, they’re 2 independent sites. Ann said that in addition to his wikipedia page being deleted, his list of authored taxa and papers on wikispecies was also “wiped”, giving the link to his sparse wikispecies page as evidence.

However, looking at the edit history of that wikispecies page, it seems nothing has been deleted - it was just very incomplete from the beginning.

2 Likes

What about webarchive?

It doesn’t have an archived page.

The last I heard, Bechley still has a page on the German language version of Wikipedia.

The second article I listed above has a copy of the page that was taken down, and goes into the reasons why the Wiki editors decided as they did. Short version: the decision was based on keeping politics out of the science articles.

1 Like

@evograd

Then the history has been edited.

2 Likes

I believe you, and it seems that @Dan_Eastwood has found some evidence. I don’t doubt that people would hide evidence of nefarious behavior too, so lack of evidence does not invalidate all claims. However, I’m just very murky on the details here. I’d like to know them.

That link is the article linked in the original post @Agauger. @mung had the post taken down because it was the original post, for the record, and he had no commentary on it. What part of the article are you referring to here?

I was just noting it would have been helpful to your case to have brought up Gunter on this thread: The Discovery Institutes Appeal for a Legislative Resolution on Academic Freedom.

I know this is a charged topic @Agauger, but i hope you understand my questions as honest inquiries, not to dispute everything, but just to understand what happened.

1 Like

Has he? @Dan_Eastwood have you even mentioned the wikispecies article being edited?

Are you saying that because you definitely recall seeing a version of this page that included at least some taxa and more publications?

Remember that this is the wikispecies article, not the wikipedia article.

@swamidass

In that thread, the emphasis was on students, so I focussed on them. There are many examples of scientists being forced out or denied tenure or losing grants and collaborators. Gunter is the most recent that I know of.

1 Like

The article inclues this inofrmation:

He kept his interest in and support of ID private until October 2015, when he broached the subject on Facebook and a personal web page. Even then, Günter kept his ID writing strictly separate from his work for the museum. But word got out. He has shared it all with us, though some must be kept back, including names and positions, to protect innocent parties.

A colleague sought to draw out evidence of his heresy in a seemingly friendly email exchange, after which Günter was summoned for a discussion of his future at the institution. Says Dr. Bechly, he was told that “as a big threat to the credibility and reputation of the museum,” he was “no longer welcome, and that it would be appreciated if I would decide to quit.” The museum also informed him that colleagues no longer want to collaborate with him.

To reinforce the impression that Bechly would no longer enjoy a comfortable, supportive, and productive professional life there, the museum deleted his webpages (which made no mention of ID) and erased him from its own website. It dismissed him as scientific head of a major exhibition he had conceived and designed, “Life in the Amber Forest.” Dr. Bechly was now forced to report as an underling to a colleague with no expertise in his area. He asked if he was being accused of any misconduct, and received the answer that, no, that certainly wasn’t the case. On the contrary, his 17 years of work at the museum had been exemplary.

If all this is true (and I don’t have reason to doubt it yet) I think Bechly’s summary is exactly right.

“It was offensive, humiliating, and unfair,” Bechly concludes in an apt summary. A few weeks after his resignation he received a troubling medical diagnosis of severe heart problems. He faces heart surgery later this month.

Still, I am cautious,

In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines. Proverbs 18:17.

I hope some one can post the other side. Though, I can’t imagine it would justify what happened. I disagree with ID in so many ways. However, they have a right to say it. If they keep it out of their professional work, I do not believe professional sanctions are warranted.

I hope that is helpful to you @Agauger.

1 Like

@evograd
It actually doesn’t matter whether I saw them previously. The fact is, they should be there now. Zero listed. Here is Gunter’s record to establish his position as a scientist. From his web page, all a matter of public record.

  • 1987-1991: undergraduate studies of biology at the University of Hohenheim / Germany
  • 1991-1994: main and graduate studies of biology at the Eberhard-Karls-University in Tübingen / Germany (with focus on entomology, subsidiary subjects: paleontology and parasitology)
  • 1994: diploma degree (= M.Sc.) in biology with a diploma thesis (in German) on the morphology of dragonfly wings titled " *Morphologische Untersuchungen am Flügelgeäder der rezenten Libellen und deren Stammgruppenvertreter (Insecta; Pterygota; Odonata) unter besonderer Berücksichtigung der Phylogenetischen Systematik und des Grundplanes der Odonata " under supervision of Dr. Gerhard Mickoleit (Inst. Zool., Univ. Tübingen)
  • 1994-1998: Ph.D. student under supervision of Prof. Wolf-Ernst Reif at the institute for geology and paleontology of the Eberhard-Karls-University in Tübingen / Germany
  • 1999: graduation as Ph.D. in geosciences with summa cum laude degree with the paleontological Ph.D. thesis " Phylogeny and systematics of fossil dragonflies (Insecta: Odonatoptera) with special reference to some Mesozoic outcrops " under supervision of Prof. Wolf-Ernst Reif (Inst. Paleont., Univ. Tübingen), co-refereed by Prof. Carsten Brauckmann (TU Clausthal-Zellerfeld) and Prof. Rainer Willmann (Univ. Göttingen). Parts of this Ph.D. thesis have been accomplished as guest researcher at MCZ, Harvard University
  • Dec. 1, 1998 - Aug. 31, 1999: Scientific trainee in the department of paleontology at the State Museum of Natural History in Stuttgart
  • Sept. 1, 1999 - December 15, 2016: scientific employee as curator for amber and fossil insects in the department of paleontology at the State Museum of Natural History (SMNS) in Stuttgart / Germany, as successor of Dr. Dieter Schlee and previously Prof. Willi Hennig
  • since October 8, 2016: Senior Fellow with Discovery Institute’s Center for Science & Culture in Seattle, WA, USA
  • since April 25, 2017: Senior Scientist at Biologic Institute in Redmond, WA, USA

Described Taxa

A recent list 112 new species (status Aug. 2014) of fossil insects described in papers authored and/or co-authored by me, can be retrieved with this EDNA databank request [PDF snapshot].

However, this list does not include the 48 new species described in JARZEMBOWSKI et al. (1998), FLECK et al. (2001, 2003, 2004, 2008), MARTILL et al. (2007), NEL & BECHLY (2009), BECHLY & STOCKAR (2011), BECHLY (2012), JATTIOT et al. (2012), NEL et al. (2012), KROGMANN et al. (2013), BECHLY & KIN (2013), and BECHLY & POINAR (2013), as well as 11 further fossil arthropod species described in 2015-2018. Otherwise, I have only described the fossil enteropneust worm Mesobalanoglossus buergeri from the Upper Jurassic Solnhofen Limestone in BECHLY & FRICKHINGER (1999).

Consequently, I have described or co-described 172 new species and numerous new genera and higher taxa, incl. the three new insect orders Schwickertoptera (BECHLY, 2007), Coxoplectoptera (STANICZEK, BECHLY & GODUNKO, 2011), and Permopsocida (HUANG et al., 2016).

And his colleagues recognize him.

Eponymy

The following 11 taxa have been named after me (patronyms):

  • Bechlyidae JARZEMBOWSKI & NEL, 2002 (a monotypic family of Protozygoptera from the Upper Carboniferous). [ PDF ]
  • Bechlya ericrobinsoni JARZEMBOWSKI & NEL, 2002 (the oldest damselfly from the Upper Carboniferous of England). [ PDF ]
  • Gorgopsidis bechlyi WUNDERLICH, 2004 (a fossil jumping spider in Baltic amber).
  • Colossocossus bechlyi MENON & HEADS, 2005 (a fossil giant cicada from the Lower Cretaceous Crato formation of Brazil).
  • Protobaetisca bechlyi STANICZEK, 2007 (a fossil mayfly larva from the Lower Cretaceous Crato formation of Brazil).
  • Carventus bechlyi HEISS & POINAR, 2012 (Aradidae from Dominican amber). [ PDF ]
  • Cretevania bechlyi JENNINGS, J.T., KROGMANN, L. & MEW, S.L., 2013 (an evaniid hymenopteran from Cretaceous Burmese amber). [ PDF ]
  • Matuna bechlyi STEBNER, F. & KRAEMER, M.S., 2014 (a psychodid dipteran from Mexican amber).
  • Pseudostenolestes bechlyi GARROUSTE & NEL, 2015 (the first Cenozoic record for the odonate suborder Isophlebioptera from Messel). [ PDF ]
  • Cratovitisma bechlyi Podstrelená, 2018 (new species of Umenocoleidae from Burmese amber). [ DOI , PDF ]
  • Gunterbechlya Huang et al., 2027 (new genus of fossil dragonflies from Burmese amber). [ DOI ]
3 Likes

It matters a great deal. You said that his (list of) publications and authored taxa had been “wiped” - that implies that they were once recorded on wikispecies and subsequently deleted by an editor. That’s completely different from the page simply being incomplete.

3 Likes

Well, Wikipedia is woefully inadequate in its information about me. Gaps may not be evidence of nefariousness.

Regardless, I’m not precisely sure what the argument is @evograd. The more important problems are the issues he described in the other article.

1 Like

@evograd. Is it possible he would not have had species, even orders listed before 2016, given his achievements?

Wikipedia is woefully incomplete. This would be an alternate explanation.

We could do an experiment to test it. Perhaps some people could anonymously add this to his profile, and we could watch what happens. If it gets deleted, for no reason, that would entirely validate @Agauger claims. If not, that would be good news, right?

Ann made the claim that in addition to the wikipedia page being deleted, the wikispecies page was also “wiped”. Evidence for this claim is lacking, and in fact there is active evidence against it. I’m just pointing that out.

This is also why I was seeking independent information sources; not everyone here accepts ENV as a news source.

1 Like

I suggest Linkedin. It is much better than wikipedia. Gunter Bechly should have his own Linkedin page. He doesn’t have one, why not?

He’s not looking for a job?

4 Likes

@evograd
What is the active evidence against it?

2 Likes