Historical Science and Observational Science

What an apt observation!

Yes, but what scientific evidence do you have that entire mountains rise several miles high and entire continents ripped apart, came together, and moved hundreds to thousands of miles only with the timespan of Flood — less than two years. Old earthers claim very small movements over millions of years can achieve such dramatic reshaping.

However, your timescale would require impossible sources of energy. In addition, such movement would create persistent, unrelenting waves of unprecedented heights, dwarfing the chicxulub tsunamis. No ship ever built could withstand a day under such conditions, let alone a year.

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Less than one year, according to Genesis.

However, your timescale would require impossible sources of energy. In addition, such movement would create persistent, unrelenting waves of unprecedented heights, dwarfing the chicxulub tsunamis. No ship ever built could withstand a day under such conditions, let alone a year.

Impossible? That’s going to be tough for you to prove. Understand that creation science is not just coming up with all these hypotheses out of the blue. We are following the testimony of Scripture. Scripture is the most important source of information we have about the past. Our speculations may be of use, but they are fallible, while Scripture is not fallible. When you say things like ā€œimpossibleā€ you are extrapolating your own limited understanding of a great number of things and claiming that essentially ā€œbecause I don’t understand how this could have happened, it didn’t.ā€ That’s arrogant.

We don’t even know (because the Bible doesn’t say) whether the Flood was achieved through purely naturalistic means, or whether supernatural causation was involved there. There are many, many unknowns. What is not unknown, however, is that Scripture says in no uncertain terms that it did happen , and we do have much evidence to support it besides that, notwithstanding our many unanswered questions.

I believe you were supposed to move the Flood discussion to another thread. But if we’re still talking about it, what are you talking about here?:

Doing historical science from a creationist perspective. Looking at the world around us and finding evidence that there was a massive global cataclysm in the past.

No. Earthquakes demonstrate the amount of energy required to move the earth. You want to move entire continents. Ok then, YEC should be able to put forth a scientific model of the energies needed, and the source(s).

We know YEC can’t do this, which is why they have never even attempted it. But I’ll give you a much simpler problem:

provide a scientific model that shows how the main Island of Japan could be moved one mile in a year and the effects it would have on the oceans.

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I don’t see that. All I see is ā€œcreation scienceā€ reactively coming up with post hoc explanations of a tiny sliver of the available evidence.

If you disagree with that, can you point me to one of your own hypotheses that was not offered reactively?

Doesn’t that describe your position on evolution?

What evidence have YOU found, Paul? Personally.

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Then why can’t you provide any of this ā€œmuch evidenceā€ that can withstand the tiniest bit of scientific scrutiny? For someone who makes as many boasts as you do you sure can’t back up any of them.

Why? When we don’t know precisely what caused the flood to begin with, how could we even get started? And when we don’t know if the events were caused miraculously or caused through natural effects?

The interpretation of Scripture by mortal men is extremely fallible however. You keep dancing around that inconvenient fact.

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You’re the one who told us YEC claims are based on and supported by science. Were just making that up?

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My position on evolution is

  1. Scripture contradicts it
  2. I don’t see good evidence for it
  3. What we do know strongly indicates it is not possible

So that’s not really the same.

What evidence have YOU found, Paul? Personally.

Anything I name will become another thread. I’ll save specific evidence discussions for another thread.

That thread for your YEC evidence has been ready and waiting for you, as soon as you find the courage to post there. :slightly_smiling_face:

Easily. We’re starting with continents moving.

Where did I say that? YEC claims are based upon Scripture and supported by science. But Scripture, not science, is the ultimate basis. If God’s word is true (and we believe it is), then that must be our starting point.

Why are they moving?

Then your YEC claims are not science, they’re pseudoscience. Science doesn’t start with its conclusion and try to force the evidence to fit.

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Sure it is:

  1. Your position is held by a minority of Christians.
  2. Of course you don’t see evidence. You tell us with every post that you don’t look at the evidence. You look at words.
  3. You don’t look at the evidence, so you can’t use the plural ā€œweā€ in #3.

I’m not talking about merely specific evidence. I’m asking what evidence you, personally, have found.

You’re making it clear that you don’t seek to learn what God is telling you through His creation.

It doesn’t matter. What would happen at the speed you’re hypothesizing they moved?