How to Invite ID Into Conversation

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #65

Did I misread you?

What did you mean? What did I miss?

(it seems I misunderstood, sorry, but what did you mean?)

(Ann Gauger) #66

I was asking Patrick if he thought it was true.

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(S. Joshua Swamidass) #67

Would you mind explaining this some more? You explained quite a bit why inviting to DI into “dialogue” is offensive. It seems like a lot of effort on some fairly normal language.

Can we balance this just a bit with some clarity from you on what you feel about DI’s rhetoric and actions? Why are they doing what they are doing? Why aren’t you publicly objecting?

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #68

That was great. Thank you.

I agree on both points. @Agauger you are not a racist. This one thing we have real common ground on.

Still DI,…well I agree with @patrick and Lenski here.


Yes, I very much agree.

This week’s House Oversight Committee hearings were a clear visual on how divided this country is. One party was all white males over 60. The other party was mixed - all colors, races, religions, sexes, sexual orientations, countries of origins. It was really stark differences. Just by looking at them, I instantly knew what party they represented. (Please note that I am an Independent and not affiliated with any political party.)

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(Nathan H. Lents) #70

Ann, I understand the point you are making in this thread more than most people would probably expect. I’m hoping some time and distance will cool heads on whatever happened here. Since I wasn’t there, I’m not going to blindly step in and defend @swamidass, just because he’s my friend. But knowing him as I do, I highly doubt that anything he said could possibly be 1/10th as nasty as what Klinghoffer, Egnor, Wells, et al. sling in pretty much every post and it’s not just toward Josh. Even Behe was personally insulting to me even after we tried to keep the gloves up at first and keep everything about science and not personality. The DI fires a lot of nasty shots and then cries victim when anyone fires back. Think of the things that have been written about Josh on EN over the past three weeks and you’re taking issue with him saying “invite to dialog” instead of just “dialog?” When you work for an organization like DI, you have to expect to feel some heat. We’re all judged partly for the company we keep.

All that said, I also agree that you take a lot of heat here on PS and I wouldn’t react very well to that either. We’re talking about forum reorganization and I think maybe that may hold some solutions. Different rooms, different categories could be for different types of community. The open and public model doesn’t always work when people feel strongly about issues. Maybe we revisit this discussion when tempers have cooled and think about a more moderated “room” for some of these engagements where all comments are pre-approved and stricter rules are enforced vigorously. Maybe it can be publicly viewable but only a handful of more serious and qualified folks are allowed to post. Just an idea. I’m willing to keep trying (with you, specifically, and Paul Nelson also seems reasonable).

(Ann Gauger) #71

Thanks, Nathan. I wish I could say it was possible to stay.

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@Agauger I got an idea. Create a new login under the name “Ann Pingry” and then comment on just the things you are interested in learning about. Leave your DI work at the office. Treat PS as the place you go to after work. You might find it more enjoyable instead of stressful.

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(Guy Coe) #73

Sure sounds conversational to me: Näsvall et al. Demonstrates the Effectiveness of Intelligent Design | Evolution News
Please do stay, @Agauger ; we need more class acts around here!

(Ann Gauger) #74

Thank you Guy. I wish I could.

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(Ann Gauger) #75

But then you’d know it was me and couldn’t resist teasing.

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:sunglasses: but it’s all in fun. If we can’t laugh at the absurdity of our lives we will go :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: crazy.

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(Ann Gauger) #77

It is this sort of stuff I will miss. Oof dah! as they say when downing a beer in Latvia (just made that up).

(Herculean Skeptic) #78

Norway, but this is the kind of stuff we will miss. :slight_smile:

Don’t let it end. Just stay. This could be a really great catalyst to getting things right this time. The Peaceful way.

(Ann Gauger) #79

Oh by the way, and may you all get one, you can get a specially crafted beer mug that says “allele” and then has space for an A, C, T, G of your choice. Coming to a lab meeting near you (if they allow it).

The idea came about because of one of my stupid typos. The only ptoblem is there are only 4 different kinds. Oh I suppose you could throw in U and the synthetics. So long. Have fun.

(Guy Coe) #80

I mean this in all honesty, my brother @swamidass and my sister @Agauger
“For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.
Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.”- Romans 12:3-8,15-18 NASB
In service to both our Lord and to the church, please continue in mutually respectful dialogue. Ideas do matter, but ideals even more so.


Yea, I seconded that. And in the words of the prophet Billy Joel, “I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun.”

"Only The Good Die Young"

Come out, Virginia, don’t let me wait
You Catholic girls start much too late
But sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one
They showed you a statue and told you to pray
They built you a temple and locked you away
But they never told you the price that you pay
For things that you might have done…
Only the good die young

You might have heard I run with a dangerous crowd
We ain’t too pretty, we ain’t too proud
We might be laughing a bit too loud
But that never hurt no one
So, come on, Virginia, show me a sign
Send up a signal I’ll throw you the line
The stained-glass curtain you’re hiding behind
Never lets in the sun
Darling, only the good die young

You got a nice white dress and a party on your confirmation
You got a brand new soul
And a cross of gold
But, Virginia, they didn’t give you quite enough information
You didn’t count on me
When you were counting on your rosary

They say there’s a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it’s better but I say it ain’t
I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun…
You know that only the good die young

You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
She never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me?

Come out, come out, come out
Virginia, don’t let me wait,
You Catholic girls start much too late,
But sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one,
You know that only the good die young
Tell you baby
You know that only the good die young
Only the good die young
Only the good
Only the good die young

(S. Joshua Swamidass) closed #83
(S. Joshua Swamidass) #84

So, to let everyone know, the talk @Agauger and I did is now available online: Gauger and Swamidass: A Conversation About God and Evolution. Comments will be here: Comments on Gauger and Swamidass at Village Forum. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

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(Herculean Skeptic) #85

Thanks kindly, @Agauger, for helping me to finally understand what is meant by the pre-biotic brew and solving the biogenesis issue!!