ID Inquiry + Infinite Money

Yet evolutionary algorithms using a combination of chance and necessity routinely find ordered solutions to complex problems that are too difficult for humans to solve alone. Oops! :slightly_smiling_face:

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The only truly “intelligent” entity we have are human beings. (And even that is contingent on whether the TTP is true.) So, this would be a test of whether human beings can act as true Maxwell demons. You would essentially be looking for violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics in a system with human beings. Thus, this would be more of a biological experiment, as you would have to track the amount of entropy in the brain of the human demon.

Sure, in principle this is testable. But there is a huge practical problem of precisely tracking whether human bodies obey the 2nd law. It seems like a fool’s errand. How can you be sure that you haven’t closed off anyway for the entropy to increase elsewhere? (Not to mention that we have no idea how the human brain works - we wouldn’t know how to track the amount of entropy in brain.) Basically, this is like trying to build a perpetual motion machine. Does anybody seriously think that this is a feasible research program that one would want to throw money at?

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Probably not. I’m just pointing out there are quantifiable physical implications to intelligent agency. I agree testing them can be quite tricky, but that seems to be the case for much of science. Breakthroughs in science come about when someone figures out an empirical test for a tricky claim. But we take these breakthroughs for granted after they’ve happened.

People (intelligent agents) program these evolutionary algorithms to achieve the desired results.

But, you are correct that something is getting produced through the algorithmic processing that could not be achieved by human effort alone. However, it could not happen without the prior intelligent intervention by the programmers.

Hume would say you have no reason to believe the rock will behave as you expect next time, if you want to be logically consistent.

Of course we say this is ridiculous, but not due to methodological naturalism.

Newton seeking out laws that govern the physical world.

Scientists, almost by definition, reject Humean skepticism. But that is not what MN means. Being committed to MN doesn’t mean that you are not allowed to believe that an intelligence may be ultimately responsible for the laws of the universe. All Christians believe that in some form. But that is not what ID theorists are arguing.

Rather, being committed to MN is believing that the laws of the universe don’t need to contain reference to the Creator itself.

LOL! Why did I know we’d get the usual ID-Creationist lame excuse?

“sure unguided evolutionary processes can be empirically shown to create order directly contradicting my claim but that was on a human designed computer!” :grinning:

Are you now claiming the unguided natural process of evolution we empirically observe in the wild were really programmed by humans?

FAIL. None of Newton’s findings involve God in the results. No gravitational formulas say “…and here add XYZ to account for God pushing the planets”. Besides how about providing something newer than well over 300 years ago? Three or four articles from Science or Nature in the last decade will do fine. You claimed ALL science diverges from methodological naturalism, remember?

ID is not a theory, it is only a hypothesis. For it to be a theory, ID needs a large amount of supporting evidence.
Realize that ID was made up as way to teach creationism in public schools. Read the Wedge Document.

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Why is the United States Air Force Research Lab providing grants in the study of ID? Please tell me more about these grants so that the Freedom From Religion Foundation can write a letter under the Freedom of Information Act and make it known to the public that the USAF is engaged in unconstitutional entanglement with religion. Given that US Federal Courts have ruled that ID is creationism (religion) disguised as science, I believe that we will have a good case getting all such grants suspended immediately.

Effective science has not dropped off. To say it has is a ridiculous statement. You need to get out of your ID bubble and look at technology produced by science research. It has accelerated exponentially in your lifetime. Medical science knowledge is doubling every 18 months. In every area of scientific endeavor, results are coming in faster and faster. Look at the sequencing of ancient genomes. From a dream to thousands of ancient genomes sequenced in a decade. In your field of Information technology continues to explode. Stop wasting your time with ID, do something useful for humanity with your skills.