ID Lacks a Punch Line

It’s easy to explain when you remember the goal of ID is not to make a case to the scientific community. The goal of ID is only to make a plausible sounding argument to scientifically untrained layman to help get ID’s religious views back into public school science classes.

I keep waiting for someone, anyone in the ID community to produce something besides propaganda, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting…

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They had better hope that their intended audience lacks curiosity. Even simple questions like, “How does inheriting DNA methylation patterns support Intelligent Design?”, don’t see to have much of an answer.

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I offer Bill and Greg as exhibits A and B. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I don’t disagree, and that’s a good point against theories that suggest the promoter evolves first for continued expression of a downstream functionless ORF.

But what if the downstream ORF actually has a positive effect on fitness already to begin with? As in, if the ORF could actually be expressed, it would yield a functional protein, instead of a useless protein that would have to be incrementally changed until it found a function by chance.

See for example this: Random sequences rapidly evolve into de novo promoters

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In the same way the shape of the Earth is a debated point between NASA and the Flat Earth Society.

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You may want to check out my thread on the pattern of substitution mutations:

Young acolytes are usually college students or grad students associated with a university or institute,which will have nothing to do with us. Plus it looks bad on their cvs.

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Why do you suppose that is?

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Don’t y’all have a decent amount of students showing up for y’all seminars? Are none of them interested?

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Sorry, I don’t buy that. If you’re convinced that there’s something to ID and you successfully convey that to them in your summer seminars, they will see a possible path to fame and fortune.

And they don’t have to put it on their cvs if it doesn’t.

The sense I get from your posts here is that ID is dying a slow death.

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You would be pulling from a limited pool, so I understand the uphill battle you are describing. You might be able to find a good technician who doesn’t have to worry about their CV, especially if you offer strong compensation. There are plenty of PI’s who don’t do any lab work, so that shouldn’t be an issue. Of course, all of this requires a firm financial commitment from whatever funding source you are using, and that funding should be justified by a clear vision on what the research is going to look like.

I know this won’t happen for obvious reasons, but it would be interesting to see how you envision the development of a focused ID research program. What are the aims? What are the hypotheses within each aim? What are the proposed experiments for each hypothesis? If you were to write a grant, what would it look like? These are more rhetorical questions, but are still worth pondering.

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You are not able to collaborate with Biola? They have some pretty bright undergrads, and I would think that opportunities to conduct research at the DI would interest some of them.

Of course, this assumes that you have a budget to allow for some bench and computer work.

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2 posts were split to a new topic: Funding an Assessment of Creation Models

@patrick I agree . I may have lived in Seattle 30 years but I lived in Boston first!

They make the students sign non-disclosure agreements. And their names are kept private. It makes it look very cult like. @Agauger Why all the secrecy? If ID is so scientific, why not openness?

Look at the summer course admission requirements:

Admission Requirements: You must be currently enrolled in a college or university as a junior, senior, or graduate student. Required application materials include (1) a resume/cv, (2) a copy of your academic transcript, (3) a short statement of your interest in intelligent design and its perceived relationship to your career plans and field of study, and (4) either a letter of recommendation from a professor who knows your work and is friendly toward ID, or a phone interview with the seminar director.

Note that items 3 and 4 are very exclusionary. You need to know a professor who is friendly towards ID? Do you have a list of ID friendly professor at every university? How is a student to know who are ID friendly professors?

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Maybe there’s a secret handshake…

I think this theory needs work :slight_smile:

How do you think this paper maps into multicellular organism promoters?

We get a fair number of students who don’t know a professor friendly to ID. Usually we handle those without recommendations by interviewing them ourselves,
We have had students who were on the fence about ID and came there to observe and learn. It’s not a monoculture or cargo cult.

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Just to be clear, I didn’t write that, Patrick did.

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