There is no scientific reason to doubt Walton’s exegetical work, and we’ve even recently interviewed him.
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NEVER
Just kidding, did I?
Does science even impinge on exegetical work? Should it? There are certainly scientific reasons to doubt that there was ever a “regional flood” in the fertile crescent, if the region is more than a few miles wide. Nor would the Persian Gulf oasis count, as that flood didn’t subside.
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10 posts were split to a new topic: Confusion on Who is Replying to What
Thanx.
You’re right; I’ve been looking on the 'net for discussion on the chronological details described in Genesis 7, 8 and there seems to be very little out there. That suggests to me that “non-literal” interpretations of said details are rare (but no doubt someone has proffered some fanciful theory on the subject).
What relevance does that have to the chronological details I cited from Gen 7, 8?
He isn’t suggesting a non-literal reading…
I don’t think this is accruate at all, but maybe it depends somewhat on how you define “literal” with regards to biblical interpretation.
If you check out the Bible Project thread that I posted in the Conversations category, and then click on the links to episodes 1 and 2, then scroll down below the podcast, then you’ll find a written summary of the show and you’ll find references.
They’re covering the ancient writings that the authors of Genesis were in conversation with in the first two episodes in order to lay the groundwork for the context in which Genesis was written, but next week I think they’ll focus more on the text of Genesis. In the show notes, when that episode comes out, you’ll find a lot of references.
The scholarship is available. There are lots of other scholars, but if you just accessed Dr. Swamidass’s book, his references, John Walton’s material, his references, the Bible Project, the references in the Bible Project show notes, all that could keep you busy learning about the ancient context of Genesis and the exegesis and even theolgy that flows from that for months, or years!
Okay, thanx. I’ll check it out.
Regarding a few quotes from the article you cite …
“In the case of the Flood, it appears that a particularly devastating, regional flood was described hyperbolically (i.e. using purposeful exaggeration) in order to make important observations on sin, judgment, and grace as well as order, disorder, and divine re-ordering.”
…… “ The flood story is describing a real event, but using hyperbole to depict that real event in order to forward the writer’s theological message. ”
… “The Flood is a hyperbolic report and the Ark is likewise a hyperbolic report”
I’m struggling to find any hint of “hyperbole” in the following details from the Flood account:
“6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth …
10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth…
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month , the seventeenth day of the month , on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights …
17 Now the flood was on the earth forty days …
24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days …
At the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters decreased. 4 Then the ark rested in the seventh month , the seventeenth day of the month , on the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month . In the tenth month , on the first day of the month , the tops of the mountains were seen …
6 So it came to pass, at the end of forty days , that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made …
10 And he waited yet another seven days , and again he sent the dove out from the ark …
12 So he waited yet another seven days and sent out the dove, which did not return again to him anymore …
13 And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year , in the first month , the first day of the month , that the waters were dried up from the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and indeed the surface of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month , on the twenty-seventh day of the month , the earth was dried.” (from Genesis 7:6-8:14).
Mixing hyperbole with what appears to be literal history seems to me to be an odd way a recording an historical event.
And here is another interesting little detail :
“You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above” (Gen 6:16).
What is the purpose of mentioning that window was to be placed “a cubit” from the top of the ark? Is there some deep and meaningful secret interpretation contained therein? I don’t think so.
Edgar, can you understand why some might think there is a hint of hyperbole here?
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If we look closely at the chronological figures in Gen 5, we’ll find that these are certainly symbolic rather than literal. The final digit for each number is 0, 2, 5, or 7 in all cases but one. Given that the probability of random ages like this is on the order of .00000006%, it is clear that these numbers are not chronological in the usual sense.11 A comparison of these numbers with the ancient Near Eastern evidence suggests that in both cases — the biblical and Mesopotamian king lists — the numbers were derived from, or influenced by, astronomical and mathematical figures.12 So it has always been a mistake to use the lifespans in Genesis to reconstruct actual human history, as Archbishop Ussher once tried to do, and many continue to do.13
Another similarity between Gen 5 and the Mesopotamian tradition concerns the seventh person in each list. The Mesopotamian king lists often stress the special importance of the seventh king (often Enmeduranki) and his wise advisor (often Utuabzu), who did not die but “ascended into heaven.” Genesis 5 also reports that the seventh patriarch was unique: “Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him” (NRSV). It is sensible to infer that the author of Gen 5 has created this genealogy by reshaping the genealogy still preserved in Gen 4 (the Antiquarian genealogy). He recast the whole in linear form, added chronology, removed extraneous comments, and inserted a comment about the seventh pre-flood hero.
The apparent motive was to create a pre-flood genealogy that looked similar to pre-flood king lists from Mesopotamia. But why would the author have done this? For much of Israel’s history, especially during and after the Babylonian exile, the Israelites and Jews lived under the oppressive thumb of the Mesopotamian states (Assyria and Babylon) and their imperial heir, Persia. It is common to find in such repressive contexts what anthropologists call “elite emulation.”14 Elite emulation arises when an oppressed culture expresses its identity through the oppressor’s images of power. In this case, it appears that Jewish scribes responded to Mesopotamian ideology by composing texts that imitated one of Babylon’s most powerful expressions of power: the king list. I and other scholars suspect that the biblical author’s motive was to help Jews resist the assimilating pressure of Mesopotamian culture.
–Kenton L Sparks, one of the three Christian writers for the counterpoints series “Genesis: History, Fiction, Or Neither?”
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You’re eliding the obvious contradiction. How many of each kind was Noah ordered to take?
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I think that if you believe in a literal interpretation of genesis 1-3 then Adam and Eve contradicts science, history and reality. It’s unlikely that , even if other humans already existed in the world, that God made a golem of the earth and brought it to life and then split it in half and turned the other half into a woman. I think to do that is to ignore the literary genre as more similar to mythology than to an actual historical narrative. It’s definitely not something we see in science.
I think that it’s far easier and accurate to see Adam and Eve as like Jonah. Jonah seems to have been a real man. It also seems like this real man was retrofitted as a character for the satirical fictional work named after him where a ship is given personhood and has thoughts and where Assyrians was so dimwitted they could not tell their hands apart. It’s similar to how Abraham Lincoln was a real man and he was used also as a character in the horror historical fiction films “ Abraham Lincoln the Vampire Slayer” or something along those lines.
When reading scripture I feel that we see one story seems to happen again and again. It opens with a man first and this man is set apart from the others. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jospeh and Moses and many others. They are given promises of being shepherds for Gods people and guided towards a promise land often. This was used as a trope in genesis 1-3.
So although I believe Adam and Eve was a real couple, I don’t think their story is. Just like Jonah they were used as characters in a fictional story. That pattern though is found in other genres in the Bible though of God selecting someone and setting them apart and guiding them towards and into a promise land. So I think between the lines what probably happened is that God guided a man to the garden to be his chosen one. God made a covenant with this man. At some point in a deep sleep this man had a vision of himself being cut in half snd the other half turned into a woman and he awoken to find a woman that was guided there. We read of these “soulmate like” interactions throughout the Bible. Just like in the world when two people fall in love by a chance encounter. The word for rib is better understood as side. A rib being taken does not carry the weight of being split in half. After all it says when two come together they become 1. (1/2+1/2=1).
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