If anything, this actually makes James Tour guilty of hypocricy, because Tour takes great issue with inaccurate science communication. Particularly when he’s so nitpicky he complains that a molecular schematic doesn’t show double bonds.
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This is a fair point but he was not presenting a scientific paper here he was making a point to a non technical group and using the slide as a generic visual.
His overall point is that OOL is a very difficult scientific problem and I know you and I have common ground here.
Yes, Rumraket.
In fact I know Glenn fairly well from years and years of friendly correspondence.
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Ah…
Nope.
Here is Tour’s minimal cell.
Here is a standard image of a prokaryotic cell;
See?
And, the prokaryotes are still more complex than a probable “first cell.”
What James Tour was doing was scamming the suckers.
I would have started by pointing out that the Earth’s surface could have supported the initial conditions for some life as early as 4.3 billion years ago:
MOJZSIS, STEPHEN J., T. MARK HARRISON, ROBERT T. PIDGEON
2001 ”Oxygen-isotope evidence from ancient zircons for liquid water at the Earth’s surface 4,300 Myr ago” Nature 409, 178-181 (11 January )
And then, I would point out that the oldest known evidence for any life on Earth was about 3.8 billion years ago;
Manfred Schidlowski, Peter W. U. Appel, Rudolf Eichmann and Christian E. Junge
1979 “Carbon isotope geochemistry of the 3.7 × 109-yr-old Isua sediments, West Greenland: implications for the Archaean carbon and oxygen cycles” Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 43, 189-199
Rosing, Minik T. and Robert Frei
2004 U-rich Archaean sea-floor sediments from Greenland – indications of >3700 Ma oxygenic photosynthesis" Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 217 237-244
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Did he really call that a minimal cell?
Based on your simple to complex paradigm. You do not know what the first cell looked like.
Do you realize we could make the prokaryotic cell look more complex by enlarging it and showing more detail?
Then why did Tour claim we did and post that obviously false picture?
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Yep.
10:05 minutes.
I am doing a second by freaking second review. After the attacks on my education, profession, and character I am going full bore.
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You mean just like Szostak was not presenting a scientific paper he was making a point to a non technical group and using the simplified graphic of sugar as a generic visual?
Thanks for helping to highlight Tour’s blatant hypocrisy.
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Why didn’t Tour show that diagram as his minimal cell then?
Keep showing Tour’s dishonesty Bill. You’re doing a great job.
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Not that I can see.
I think you won the exchange. I’m not sure what you have to gain. Stop while you are ahead.
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It’s not good form to lie about the video Bill when anyone can go back and see it. Tour showed the eukaryotic cell and said at 10:04 “if you want to have origin of life you have to start here”.
Go ahead and wriggle out of that damning evidence Bill.
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As long as there are people like Bill and Jim defending Tour’s dishonesty there is still work to do.
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I had missed that little screw-up.
[quote=“Timothy_Horton, post:51, topic:6204”]
This is a fair point but he was not presenting a scientific paper here he was making a point to a non technical group and using the slide as a generic visual.[/quote]
Josh Gee Wiz, Bill. And to think that Jack Szostak was making such damnable lies in his serious “Primary Literature” item.
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To establish dishonesty you have to establish intent. The assertion kid strikes again.
Having read the slander against me by John West, and against science in general by James Tour I am going to have a ‘right good ol’ time.’
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That has been established to the satisfaction of all except the scientifically illiterate Fundy Creationist population. Bill Cole strikes again.
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All you are establishing is you are not above the use of logical fallacies because someone has used them against you. You and Tim are clearly trying to attack Tour here with unsupported assertions of intentional dishonesty.
Origin of life is a difficult problem. Attacking Tour is not going to make it easier.