James Tour details his reasoning

[colewd (Bill Cole)]

@Timothy_Horton

That has been established to the satisfaction of all except the scientifically illiterate Fundy Creationist population.

Doubling down with another assertion. You are in a league of your own

[Timothy_Horton]

@colewd

Doubling down with another assertion

Go ahead Bill and defend this dishonesty by Tour. We’re waiting. Say something intelligent for a change.

@Timothy_Horton

It’s not good form to lie about the video Bill when anyone can go back and see it. Tour showed the eukaryotic cell and said at 10:04 “if you want to have origin of life you have to start here”

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

This conversation is not progressing. Fix it soon or @moderators will close the topic.

[Timothy_Horton]

@colewd

Origin of life is a difficult problem. Attacking Tour is not going to make it easier.

Having Tour lie to laymen and claim the problems are insurmountable without the help of a magic POOF! won’t make Tour look honest either.

[Timothy_Horton]

@swamidass

This conversation is not progressing

We present evidence, the Creationists shut their eyes and go NUH-UH! What do you suggest?

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

@Gary_Hurd

So you let a creationist sling falsehoods, and slanders to shut down the exposure of creationist frauds and lies?

@Timothy_Horton

We present evidence, the Creationists shut their eyes and go NUH-UH! What do you suggest?

How do you get that from “This conversation is not progressing”? @swamidass is just pointing out the fact that the conversation (in fact, pretty much all the Tour threads) seem to have devolved into repeating the same stuff without much headway on either side. It’s not about taking sides. I think the point is, if you’re not getting anywhere and neither side seems able to re-adjust to find either new common ground or routes to understanding, then maybe it’s time to wind the thread down.

[Gary_Hurd]

So Jordan, are there a lot of chemistry that gets “readjusted” to fit religious dogma?

I am retired, but I do not recall that part.

When I was an industrial polymer chemist I was asked (ordered) to sign-off on fake QC documents. They (my boss) wanted to “protect industrial secrets.”

I quit. That day.

I see nothing different today.

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

@Gary_Hurd

So Jordan, are there a lot of chemistry that gets “readjusted” to fit religious dogma?

I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking, but I think the answer is “no”, at least I certainly wouldn’t suggest doing so as a way of learning the truth about things as they really are.

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@Gary_Hurd

When I was an industrial polymer chemist I was asked (ordered) to sign-off on fake QC documents. They (my boss) wanted to “protect industrial secrets.”

I quit. That day.

Good for you. Must have been easy and difficult.

[Gary_Hurd]

That was the deciding moment between well paid industry jobs, and academic jobs.

I had a research fellowship offer in medicine which meant the loss of income was a lot less traumatic than I might have been.

There was a weird cross-check recently. When I was a grad student we made irradiated microbeads at the UC Irvine nuclear reactor facility. (That was my undergrad, and grad fellowships ‘home’). They were used in a research protocol to test the idea they could be used to treat inoperable cancers in the pancreas. The beads were doped with chromium. Very high energy gamma emitter.

Last summer my wife was treated at UC Irvine with micobeads doped with Yttrium 90, a lower energy isotope.

[Mercer (John Mercer)]

@swamidass

This conversation is not progressing.

What would it look like if it was?

@swamidass

Fix it soon or @moderators will close the topic.

You could contribute by watching and commenting on the video…

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

I’ve been wanting to go through Tour’s points in detail, along with Sutherlands papers and post my review. I’ve been slammed the last two weeks and haven’t gotten to it yet, but I’m hoping to in the next couple days. My area is laser spectroscopy and photochemistry so I’m not exactly and expert in OoL but I’m very interested in reading up.

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

@Gary_Hurd

There was a weird cross-check recently. When I was a grad student we made irradiated microbeads at the UC Irvine nuclear reactor facility. (That was my undergrad, and grad fellowships ‘home’). They were used in a research protocol to test the idea they could be used to treat inoperable cancers in the pancreas. The beads were doped with chromium. Very high energy gamma emitter.

Last summer my wife was treated at UC Irvine with micobeads doped with Yttrium 90, a lower energy isotope.

I hope the treatment went well. Do they try to target the microbead placement specifically to the tumor area? If so, do you know how?

[Gary_Hurd]

I did a little introduction some years ago.

I plan on an update now that I have been re-interested

Stones and Bones: A Short Outline of the Origin of Life

[Gary_Hurd]

No. She died.

The beads are introduced by catheter directly into the tumors. The procedure is guided by “live” CT to start and then ultrasound. The target pathways are pre-mapped by a PET-CT with contrast dye.

The medical students and residents were very dubious that an old long haired hippy dude knew about their superdupper high tech medicine. Their boss knew better! The kiddies were shocked that I knew that Yt 90 was a negative beta decay with an ~3 day 1/2 life.

Old-Bum|500x500

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

My condolences, so sorry to hear that.

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

@Gary_Hurd

I plan on an update now that I have been re-interested

Stones and Bones: A Short Outline of the Origin of Life

Thanks for the link, I will certainly have a look.

[Gary_Hurd]

Well, thank you.

It is a very strange situation to know clinically, and also experience personally.