Lenski’s Long Term Evolutionary Experiment | The Skeptical Zone

[Sam (Sam Foerster)]

@Michael_Okoko

@Sam

He says that the Darwinian mechanism of random variation and natural selection aren’t sufficient to do the task claimed for them.

Every evolutionary biologist knows this and knew it a long time before Behe ever came on the scene. Modern evolutionary theory has advanced past plain old Darwinism.

One very large problem in these discussions is that everyone is equivocating on terminology. I am not saying that anyone specifically is doing so on purpose, but it is almost impossible not to do it since the words are so plastic and have been used rather carelessly for so long. So if you are taking issue with my use of the word ‘Darwinian’ excuse me. The point is that at that point he believed everything that Kenneth Miller believes, or everything that Richard Dawkins believes (apart from the non-belief in God), or everything that Joshua Swamidass believes in. So fine, it wasn’t what you fit in the limited definition of the Darwinian mechanism. It was everything that every mainstream scientist at the time was thinking. My point that it seems so painful to make is that he came to his current beliefs not from reading the bible, or because of a theology course or a dream, or a vision or any other of the regular ways he seems to be disparaged. He was challenged to look closely at the science supporting all of the neo-Darwinian synthesis, as well as neutral theory.
And maybe what is alluded to in the answer to the question posed here, https://youtu.be/wXU2Z3GVNFM?t=5247 will allow you to be a bit more broad in what you hear me say in the phrase Darwinian mechanism.

@Michael_Okoko

@Sam

He only became disillusioned as he found bit by bit that the evidence for the mechanism was scanty.

Hold your horses Sam. Data just disagrees with you. You keep saying these things but it seems you don’t know what they really are. Darwinian evolution can explain many aspects of evolutionary change in the past and present, but it is inadequate to account for all changes.

You claim that “Darwinian evolution can explain many aspects of evolutionary change in the past and present”, but that is called begging the question if the claims of what ‘Darwinian evolution’ can in fact explain. And to follow your own instruction to me, why are you claiming that, ‘Darwinian evolution’ can explain a lot? Haven’t we ‘advanced past plain old Darwinism.’

@Michael_Okoko

I don’t know anything about the Challenger disaster, but as far as evolutionary biology is concerned, scientists are not denying any plain truth, but are simply following the evidence where it leads. I can’t say the same for many YECs and ID proponents.

Why are you suggesting that, evolutionary biologist breath the rarified air of only objectivity and truth telling. I’ve got sad news for you. They are people. With the same biases, prejudices, desires for confirmation bias, willingness to be ‘gate-keepers’ at the temple of ‘orthodoxy’. If scientist working at the premier science organization in the world, NASA, can obfuscate and deny good and even simple science when the situation suits them, what in the world would make you think you’ve ‘fenced off’ the good scientists that are above such?

Anyway, thanks for the time you took to respond. I think I’m through on this thread.
Regards,
Sam