Mini-thought experiment about the nested hierarchy

I see, you were trying to be funny. I thought you had a serious objection to what I said.

I have no idea how this went off the rails, but yes, I had a serious objection. You were apparently trying to claim that Bill’s problem is general, and I don’t think it’s as widespread as you implied.

Dreamtime.

@pnelson

I find the problem with nested hierarchies is that Creations look for those that are problematic while Evolutionists dont use Crime Evidence examples of nested hierarchies enough to show how nested hierarchies arent just about Evolution.

I can’t make sense of this, can you rephrase it?

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@Rumraket

CSI technicians use evidence schematics like nested hierarchies… especially if they are canvassing the genetic diversity 100 potential perpetrators, some of whom may be related knowingly or unknowingly.

If we can show how crime courts evaluate genetic evidence validly, we can apply the same principled to Evolution.

Typo: The word perpetrators corrected.

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I’m speechless.

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How many times have we been over this Bill? Nothing about those results conflicts with a nested hierarchy, and it’s far too low-resolution compared to sequence-based phylogenetics anyway.

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I disagree with your assertion. Let’s see what Paul thinks.

No they don’t. Human individuals don’t fit nested hierarchies. They fit a web of relationships. That’s what gene flow does.

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Bill, I’ve shown you many times how this diagram fits a nested hierarchy (specifically the standard tree of vertebrate relationships) very well. But you learn nothing and forget everything. That’s why it’s so frustrating to try to deal with you.

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John,
I know your opinion here and you disagree this is a problem. It is data where genes are not following a pattern I would expect from inheritance. You have explained it with gene loss.

That is possible but this is the type of data I think Paul is talking about. There is additional data like this in Winston’s dependency graph.

Then you probably don’t understand the basics of inheritance.

Your thinking is dead wrong.

Bill, nothing about that even suggests a violation of a nested hierarchy.

What pattern would you expect from inheritance, and why isn’t this it?

Are you ok with this tree for discussion?
https://images.app.goo.gl/MtiGhf65vFaBcbtr6

@John_Harshman,

How would you describe the process being emphasized in steps 7 and 8 of the crime analysis?

Background Discussion Page

Main Steps of Investigation

ZOOM IN ON STEPS 7 and 8

IMPORTANT NOTE ON NEWEST TECHNIQUES:
"Restriction fragment length polymorphism (RFLP), shown above, is an older DNA-profiling technique. It has largely been replaced by PCR amplification of repetitive DNA segments that vary in length among individuals."

https://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/science/forensics/

It has some oversimplifications and leaves some things out, but it’s generally OK.

Another illustration …

http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/VL/GG/ecb/pcr_in_forensic_science.html