I know that all human beings have a finite life span.
Yes, everyone does… The question is whether there is a part of a human being that exists beyond that lifespan.
I am sure you have understood what i am asking. If you do not want to answer, i will not press you.
There is no evidence that a part of any human being (or any life form) exists or existed beyond its death. However, for some, It may be a comforting thought to speculate that some part of their deceased loved ones live beyond death.
Depends on how you define evidence. I asked what you believe.
Do you think its a possibility?
I define evidence in the standard way that a forensic scientist would.
What I believe is irrelevant as to whether something is true or not.
Do I think that it is possibility that some part of any human being can exist beyond its death? Well, yes, the genes of the deceased person lives on in its descendants. Also a deceased person can sort of live on in the memories and thoughts of the persons he knew.
But a forensic scientist starts off with a dead body. If (as a hypothesis) there were an immortal soul that floated free of the body at death, he’d be the last person to know… as a forensic scientist, rather than as a human being. (Eg J Warner Wallace who is a cold-case detective dealing daily with foresnsics, but a Christian apologist too.,
And I see at least one Christian University over there offers a course in Forensic Science.
As a generalisation, the “There is no evidence for…” line on the supernatural is tired and lazy, and more so on a site like this. I do wish you’d try and sound less like Donald Trump denying there is “any evidence” for Russian interference when he really means is … well, who knows what he really means?
Humans having an immoral soul is something that common decent pokes holes in if you say that only humans have them. You are then forced to determine where to draw the sharp line in history of the first primates to acquire this invisible-to-science human only characteristic.
To me, the belief that we have immortal souls is more harmful than beneficial for living in today’s secular scientific world. I have noticed that people with such beliefs don’t take care of their bodies and their lives as well as they would if they were agnostic on the existences of souls. Taking care of one’s soul to the detriment of one’s body and conscience brain is wasteful of one’s life - the only one we have.
Obesity is more deadly than nihilism? Great; now I have a headache; think I’ll go get two donuts… oh; wait --maybe it’s a heartache, and I just need to spend a few minutes counting my blessings. WWPD?
You’ve moved the goalposts, Patrick. The question was evidence for life after death (which I confess I did exemplify by “immortal soul”), and now you’re talking about the moral disadvantages you see in it (somehow tied to this being a “secular scientific age”).
If there is life after death, your impression that it is harmful to believe in it in it is as irrelevant as the Creationist disbelieving in evolution because nature would be red in tooth and claw. Neither alters the fact of the matter, not the evidence for the fact of the matter.The same is true of the idea that this is a “secular scientific age” if that were anything more than a subcultural myth. I followed a scientific career, and am not secular, nor from any other age. And most ordinary people in the world - probably a majority of all who have ever lived - are neither secular nor scientific.
However, regarding your final sentences, you would appear to have met a lot of Platonists disdaining their bodies, rather than Christians honouring theirs as temples of Christ. I play rock music, as it happens, but because I care for my eternal future (whilst not actually believing in an immortal soul), I’ve never done drugs, cigarettes or excessive alcohol - and I seem to have a healthier body than many of my contemporaries who were agnostic about immortality, but not about sex, drugs and rock’n’roll.
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Ok, I’ll move the goalposts back. There isn’t life after death. Now what do you want to talk about? Perhaps things in this life that matter?
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No - I’ll settle on replying “there is no evidence that human life ceases at death, and much evidence that it does not.”
Certainly not nihilism. Secular Humanistic morals, ethics, and values are much more evolved than biblical morals, ethics, and values. Most atheists that I know live life of very high morals, values, and ethics with great purpose and meaning in their lives. I reject the premise that only through having beliefs in Gods or the supernatural or an afterlife can one have a great and happy life full of great purpose and meaning.
really? Ever seen a person die?
Are you joking? You’re talking to a doctor who did on-call for a hospice. Ever see a person die having seen Christ?
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@Patrick you know @jongarvey is a physician right? He is speaking from more firsthand knowledge than most. And he has a point that this is a point in our world where the afterlife becomes salient.
I saw my dad die twice. The first time my step-mother, who had been trained as a nurse, resuscitated him. He bit her tongue during the procedure and it was her impression that he did not want to be brought back, that he was fighting it. He never regained his power of speech, but in the hospital she asked him to squeeze her hand if he saw Jesus and he did. He motioned for paper to write something down but she put it in the wrong hand and he could not write down what he wanted to say, but he was ready to go. Not that I was. I was a young hot-head back then and caused enough of a scene that they called security on me. Fortunately by then rage had turned to grief and I was sitting on the floor in a corner, and the officer took one look and then turned around and left, else my life could have taken a very different tack.
Now I have never witnessed the death of an unbeliever but our neighbors growing up had someone who witnessed the death of a man who was “the furthest thing from a Christian”. The fellow said he’d never do it again.
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No, is there a difference in the way people die having seen Christ?
Yes, I know both you are physicians and have seen death of both loved ones and others. You are both very well trained to give comfort to the dying and the loved ones left behind. So, from your extensive firsthand knowledge tell us the real, scientific, medical, physical facts about your knowledge (and not your beliefs) of souls leaving the body after you declare the person died and also about the soul going to an afterlife somewhere in the non-physical world.
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Well, dying is as individual as folks. But there are many cases, some of which I’ve witnessed or heard directly from relatives, of believers who suddely became smiling and peaceful, and testified that they had seen Jesus waiting to welcome them into his presence. It sometimes occurs at the point of death, sometimes hours or a day or so before.
That is to be distinguished, at least to a degree, from near death experiences of life beyond death. I interviewed a candidate for church membership just last month whose faith began when she was knocked down by a car, aged three, and vividly recounted to her grandfather that she had been told by angels that her time was not yet. I smiled because I had a similar experience at the mature old age of 14, in my case following strangulation by someone who is now a professor of epidemiology.
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Have you ever seen an atheist couple die smiling and peaceful? Here are two members of FFRF from Oregon: