I disagree. If homeopaths came here posting water had memory and could remember what was mixed with it in the past, should we ignore this, even if it came up in an introductory thread?
Nobody sees discussions here as war, but they can get tense especially if one side is unwilling to objectively examine evidence being provided to support or falsify a given claim.
If you leave some of these “unrelated points” unaddressed, they run the risk of coming off as unassailable by the claimant. If we are discussing whether water had memory specifically and a homeopath brought up the unrelated point that naturopathic formulations in combination with homeopathic nosodes are effective, I won’t leave it unattended.
Sure in casual conversations on nothing in particular. On specific topics, however, one has to get serious, and in the experience of the scientists here it can get really frustrating trying to lead YECs to examine evidence. When this fails, expect hostilities to an extent. That’s where the 4-hours pause period comes in handy.
No, you shouldn’t ignore it. Did I ever say that we should ignore people’s incorrect or ignorant beliefs in a thread? No. In fact, I said honest engagement and criticism is good. Only that you shouldn’t gang up on a person who is friendly and earnest in coming here.
No, they don’t. Just note that these are off-topic and move on. I’ve done that multiple times when discussing with people here to avoid discussions just ballooning in length. (I’ve also done this when discussing with you, if you remember.) I even think some obviously bonkers claims are better left ignored rather than challenged. Again, Brandolini’s law applies here: it takes 10 times as much effort to refute BS than to generate it.
There’s no judge sitting in the sidelines giving points to YECs for unrelated points which are left unrefuted. I think it’s more likely that lurkers will come here to look for arguments for and against a specific issue (e.g. “Sanford’s arguments regarding genetic entropy”), rather than “general arguments why YEC is wrong”.
We’re trying to encourage people here to not be hostile even if that is expected. Our goal is not to be your average “creation vs. evolution” debate forum.
Holy Cow. Howdy folks! Thought I’d jump on today to see what’s up. Wasn’t planning on posting anything, but thought I would real quick…
Man, it looks like I’m getting lots of attention here. Way too much perhaps. I haven’t read through all of this, and I’m sure it’s all good discussion, but let me set you all at ease as far as I’M concerned: I’m good! I got thick skin. I don’t know if you saw my very last post (go read it if you haven’t), I realized I when I showed up at PS I “ran into the room, make a big bunch of noise, and tripped in the process”. But, I decided I’m going to step back out of the room, and try that again. But for now, got a busy week at work and family at home. I’ll be back probably next week.
In the meantime, I just HAD to respond to the following. I had to laugh because I told Tim I wouldn’t be responding to him. And normally I skip past his comments, but I did happen to read this one and just had to reply:
Amen to that! Tim, I just gained a little more respect for you there: Not caring what I think, wanting to allow for responding to anything seen as “nonsense” (yes, I get it, my post was shoddy), not treating me like a ‘delicate snowflake’.
Excellent post Tim.
Ok, gotta get back to work. Ya’all have a Merry Christmas!!
It really helps to make a clear distinction between expressing opinion and argumentation or criticism. Far too often I see people rushing to the defense of science when a religious opinion is stated. There is no correct scientific response to a religious opinion, but some people seem to enjoy tilting at windmills (I might be one of them!). It works the other way too, With religious response to a scientific question.
I think we really need to try harder, as a group, to not be arguing over the wrong questions.
There are certainly no judges but committed YEC lurkers who would think that unaddressed YEC claims are solid.
Anyway, I agree that we do not need to respond to every unrelated claim. This is PS, that unrelated point is probably going to be the topic of another future thread.
Its difficult to prevent exasperation when addressing PRATTs, but if we know that they will be brought up, then our irritation should only build up slowly. If the mods sense tensions rising, they should launch the 4-hours pause timer.
Whether this forum becomes a spot for regular creation vs evolution debates, depends on YECs. My dream would be for most YECs here to become like Todd Wood, i.e, they reject evolutionary theory, but understand it and understand it is the strongest explanation for the diversity of life. If this is achieved, that would be lovely.
