R_speir's theory of backwards in time creation

@John_Harshman, @Timothy_Horton, no name-calling please! You can edit or I will flag, and I get grumpy when people make me do work. :wink:

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Not sure what you’re referring to.

The atoms of earth you refer to would have been created in-situ and the planet pre-formed in this case, and not as a result of accreted material from the solar nebula. The nascent earth would have occupied the Minkowski spacetime “now”. When God – who already occupied a spacetime location 14 billion years prior to the MInkowski “now” of earth – suddenly created the universe, the result would have been an accelerated aging of earth’s planetary material, as well as a geologic transformation, as the entire history of the universe unfolded and caught-up, so to speak, with the “now” of earth.

In this manner, the miracle of the wine at Cana would hark back to the creation of earth and the cosmos. What began as water in pots was supernaturally turned to juice, then rapidly aged – in situ. In other words, no-one harvested the grapes, crushed them, poured the juice into wineskins, placed the wineskins in a cool cave, waited for fermentation to occur, or poured the wine into the water pots.

The miracle of rapid aging in both cases would have been God’s ability to occupy and freely operate in a spacetime location that predates our “now”.

And since you are wondering, God’s creation of earth’s past light cone would have connected seamlessly to the Minkowski “now” of earth. What would have begun as a privileged location for earth in spacetime, would today be undiscernible and swallowed up in an enormous Friedmann universe.

But the past, the Big Bang that does eventually form our solar system would be interrupted by a period in which there was nothing but the earth, and then resumed with all the universe again. You have a replacement of history, not an integration.

Not at all. Do you know about light cones and causal connection? Everything in the Minkowski “now” is causally connected to its past light cone. No breaks.

Ok, let’s say I pick a point (particle) not on earth and trace its path through space time. It interacts with others, going this way and that, gets caught in our proto solar system, circling a coalescing sun about 93 million out. There’s no earth yet. All of a sudden, the Earth exists fully formed out of nothing, with considerable gravity, in the midst of a massive disk of gas.

What happened to the gas that existed where the earth is now? Seems to have been overwritten, replaced. The gas immediately around the earth should collapse onto it, increasing its mass. Sound right so far?

No, it does not sound right so far. Study up on disk migration. Opposing tidal torques in a near-formed planet of quick introduction into a protoplanetary disk may just as well have repelled gases, thus opening up a low density annular gap in the orbit.

There also exists the very real possibility that earth was formed outside of the solar protodisk as a rogue wanderer, only later captured by the sun’s gravitation.

But the timeline is what you imagined? The fully formed earth suddenly appearing in the middle of our solar system?

My timeline? No, I was just answering an imagined problem that you invented.

Now, if you are referring to God’s timeline, multiplied billions of rogue planets may have been created first in the Minkowski “now” and sat in utter darkness. Then when God began to occupy and operate – that is, create – in timeframes that predated the Minkowski “now”, star systems began to appear and later captured many of the rogues.

Found this in my mental Rolodex of quotes:

There is already a solution for why the universe looks old. It’s because it’s old.

Challenge met. Jesus, who is God, did exactly that. He aged the juice of grapes in an instant. How old do you think his fine wine would have tasted?

The age of wine is not determined by how it tastes, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. You also seem to be inserting ideas that are not found in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus aged the wine. It simply states that Jesus turned water into wine. Period. If anything, it is only proof for Jesus being the best college roommate ever.

And with your pretentious and ludicrous reply, you have lent credence to my idea. Thank you.

Why does the Bible have to say what God already thinks – and hopes – that you will be smart enough to figure out?

I was aiming for humorous.

Humility prevents me from pretending to know what God thinks.

Don’t flatter yourself.

Your scenario may be obvious to you, but it’s not to me. I’m trying to figure out your proposed timeline. Once God creates time, I should be able to pick any point (particle) at the beginning, and follow it through time and space, that’s what Minkowski space time allows us to do.

Now the Earth should appear by some means some 8 to 9 billion years later. This is the particular time and place you choose to call THE Minkowski “now” (though every time and place in the history of the universe is a Minkowski “now”). It doesn’t matter if the history of the earth’s particles retroactively propagate through time and space because you can trace any point forward or backward in time in Minkowski spacetime. There’s nothing special about that, no rapid aging is needed.

Day 1. New earth day. Nascent earth created in hyperplane of Minkowski “now”. Present exists.

Day 2. Separation day. Earth begins to be moved temporally backward from spacetime “now” position (or depending on one’s reference frame, it could alternately be said that the “now” position is moved temporally forward). Past begins to exist.

Day 3. Old earth day. From spacetime “now” reference frame earth is seen to age 4+ billion years. Defined light cone exists.

Day 4. Universe day. Spacetime extended into deep past for an additional ~8 billion years. Cosmic creation ensues. 14 billion year light cone exists with full Universe history.

All days from “now” frame are 24 hours in duration.

What evidence do you have that any of this happened?

Since forward time doesn’t exist until day 3, the first two “days” are not days within the universe. No time passes, not 24 hours nor eons. I think you just broke the YEC model.

Disappointed. Why must I put every single thing in writing before you people understand. Of course, time is moving forward on days 1 and 2, just not enough to mention…sigh