Resurrection - Alternative Theories

The “overall context” appears to be an a priori belief that the “resurrection” actually happened. Not exactly the most appropriate starting point for an objective appraisal.

It may or may not be reasonable, but it is not the perspective from which I am working. I am working from a perspective that is completely neutral on whether any gods exist and on whether naturalism is true.

Have you any arguments to offer that work from that perspective? Or does one have to beg a number of questions before arriving at a conclusion in favour of the “resurrection”?

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I suppose thats just it. There wasn’t a prior belief of the Ressurection in the beginning of the story, and we aren’t expecting you to adopt that prior either.

No, that is not the case. The overall context I was referring to is the cultural and religious context of the Jewish faith (their identity as a people in covenant with Yahweh, their belief in the Old Testament writings, and the expectation of a Messiah and a new covenant), and the details of Jesus’ ministry and the circumstances surrounding his crucifixion (for example, his conflict with the religious authorities over his claim to be the Son of God). Those things are part of the context for evaluating any hypothesis attempting to explain the resurrection evidence, whether natural or supernatural.

Whether the resurrection actually happened is not part of the context, but since we were specifically discussing possible supernatural explanations for the evidence, it’s very relevant to ask what supernatural beings would have the motive and opportunity to raise Jesus (or make it appear that he was raised), or what kind of evidence we should expect on the assumption that he was raised (or that it was made to appear that he was raised).

Completely neutral? I’m curious what exactly you mean by that. Do you mean that you personally don’t have any leanings one way or the other? Is that because you’ve considered the question and haven’t found either side any more convincing than the other, or you just aren’t concerned by the question? Or do you mean something else?

You should recognize that is a false dichotomy: I have arguments to the effect that it is reasonable to move from theism the Christianity on the basis of the evidence for the resurrection, and I have other arguments (outside the scope of this discussion) to the effect that it is reasonable to move from a neutral perspective to theism.

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I don’t believe that is the case at all.

Some people insist a person came back to life after he was dead.

To support this, they only need to provide evidence of the same sort by which it is determined that a claimed event likely happened.

I don’t see it is necessary to get into a whole bunch of historical, sociological theological, and whatever-else-ical context to answer so simple a question.

This seems to assume that there is some well-established, rigorous discipline regarding the study of supernatural beings and their behaviour, much like an ornithologist can describe the nesting habits of any particular species of bird. But as far as I know there is no such discipline that has studied the behaviour of demons and spirits to determine that they are very unlikely to fake a resurrection. Unless you care to provide some citations to this research.

Sorry, I was unclear. No, I am an atheist and I am also of the opinion that the category “supernatural” either refers to the non-existent, or is incoherent on its own terms.

However, on the particular question of the alleged resurrection of Jesus I am approaching it from a perspective in which the existence of God and of the supernatural are open questions and are not ruled out a priori, chiefly because that is the perspective most believers insist on, and I am attempting to engage in a discussion on their own terms.

So far, it appears to me they have not really thought thru the implications of those terms and keep making arguments that, for instance, presume the very “naturalism” they insist on the outset is out of bounds. Quite odd.

OK, but have you any arguments that move from a position that does not presume theism or Christianity to demonstrating the resurrection happened? Because that is what we are discussing here, not the other things you mention.

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Hi @swamidass, @Faizal_Ali, @structureoftruth, @haryonob, @Rumraket and @T_aquaticus,

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, and put forward an alternative theory that sounds fairly plausible. It’s not going to be a simple theory, but a compound one. That is, it makes multiple assumptions. If these assumptions were independent, that would make it highly ad hoc and lower its probability; however, as we’ll see, the assumptions made in the “devil’s advocate” theory I’m proposing are inter-related, not loose and disparate.

  1. Jesus was a man prone to seeing visions. The Bible itself records that he did (Matthew 3:16-17, 4:1-11; Luke 10:18; John 5:19-20, 8:38). Jesus was also a very charismatic individual, who performed at least some spectacular healings that his followers believed to be miracles.

  2. Jesus picked followers who, like himself, were intensely pious and/or prone to seeing visions. In particular, his three most prominent apostles, Peter, James and John, were all prone to seeing visions, as shown by the Biblical story of the Transfiguration, where they saw Jesus conversing with two beings in white (later interpreted as Moses and Elijah), up on a mountain (see Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36). Judging from the account, Peter was especially vision-prone. Peter was also the eldest and most senior apostle, being the only one who was an adult (Matthew 17:27); the others were teenagers.

  3. What happened on the mountain where Jesus was “transfigured” was pivotal for Jesus’ mission: he had an epiphany. He realized that his divine mission was to die in Jerusalem, and that subsequently, he would be publicly vindicated by God and glorified. Fr. Jerome Murphy-O’Connor, OP (1935-2013), a world-renowned Biblical scholar, made an excellent case for this claim in his article, What Really Happened at the Transfiguration?, which is worth reading in its entirety. Fr. O’Connor’s reconstruction of the original version of the story is an impressive piece of detective work.

  4. After this epiphany, Jesus repeatedly told his disciples that he would die and be vindicated by God, after his death. Biblical scholar Maurice Casey (1942-2014) argues as much in his book, Jesus of Nazareth: An Independent Historian’s Account of His Life and Teaching (London & New York: T & T Clark, 2010). In chapter 12, he writes that “as Jesus headed directly for his death in Jerusalem, he predicted his death and resurrection more than once.” His disciples need not have understood these sayings; all that mattered was that they heard Jesus say that he would be vindicated after his death, and that he would not abandon them.

  5. After his death, Jesus’ body was placed in a tomb by the Jewish authorities (Acts 13:29, John 19:31). Joseph of Arimathea, who was a member of the Sanhedrin, was merely acting on their behalf, in agreeing to hold the body in his tomb; he was not acting in opposition to them. It is worth noting that in Mark’s original account of Jesus’ trial, he had also voted for Jesus’ death (Mark 14:64).

  6. Afterwards, the Jewish authorities began to worry. Jesus had attracted a large following, and they were worried that his disciples would turn his tomb into a shrine. (They probably hadn’t heard Jesus foretell his post-mortem vindication; they just wanted to avoid publicity.) So to forestall that, they secretly decided to move Jesus’ body to another location and bury it there. This was a fateful decision, leading to unintended consequences that they could never have foreseen.

  7. Meanwhile, the disciples had fled to Galilee. The women present at Jesus’ burial didn’t need to tell them to go there; they fled simply because they were afraid of being arrested by the Roman authorities, as the followers of a convicted political criminal. On a mountain in Galilee, Peter and some of the disciples had a post-mortem vision of Jesus, having been primed to do so by Jesus’ own predictions of his impending passion, death and vindication after his death. Even so, a few of the disciples still doubted what they saw (Matthew 28:16-17). At this stage, the disciples probably thought they had seen Jesus’ spirit, who had come back to comfort them.

  8. A week or two later, women who had visited Jesus’ original tomb on Easter Sunday morning and found it empty finally caught up with the disciples in Galilee, and breathlessly told them that Jesus’ body had been removed. It was at this stage that Peter put two and two together and made five. The body had not been stolen, he said; Jesus had risen. He and the other disciples had recently seen Jesus. Now, Peter finally realized that what they had seen was no ghost, but Jesus, resurrected from the dead. The fact that Jesus’ body was gone proved it. This was Jesus’ long-foretold post-mortem vindication. More visions followed, and perhaps this time, some of the disciples fancied that they touched Jesus. The women were convinced, and enthusiastically spread the message, along with the disciples. At first, the message spread around Galilee; later, the disciples felt sufficiently emboldened to preach in Jerusalem.

  9. When the Jewish priests and leaders heard the preaching of Jesus’ resurrection, they were highly annoyed. Their plan to tamp down the publicity regarding Jesus’ burial had backfired spectacularly. At the same time, they could hardly produce the body of Jesus. By now, several weeks had passed, and it would no longer have been recognizable, as it would have decayed too much, so it would fail to dampen the faith of the early Christians. (“How do you know that’s him? And why should we believe you, anyway, when you admit to having stolen a dead body?”) Moreover, it would have reflected very badly on them, had they admitted to removing a body from a tomb and burying it elsewhere. So they decided to lie low and say nothing, in the hope that the Christian movement would fizzle out. But it didn’t.

  10. Jesus’ disciples continued to perform spectacular healings, which many people regarded as miracles. This bolstered the credibility of the Christian message. By now, it had acquired a life of its own - a life that was given a new lease by the conversion of an epileptic Pharisee named Saul of Tarsus. The rest is history.

Thus ends my “devil’s advocate” hypothesis. I will acknowledge that it has one significant flaw: it fails to account for the turnaround of Jesus’ brother James. James had previously believed Jesus to be insane (Mark 3:21). But St. Paul records that he, too, saw the risen Jesus: “then he appeared to James” (1 Corinthians 15:7). Unlike the apostles, he wasn’t a follower of Jesus and would not have been primed to experience any post-mortem visions of Jesus. So how did he come to see Jesus? I’ll leave the question up in the air, and invite others to poke holes in my “devil’s hypothesis,” if they wish to do so.

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I can see two weaknesses in the hypothesis:

First, producing the body might not dampen the faith of all converted Christians, but it could certainly hamper its spread at least in Jerusalem. And it would force Christians to have to argue that the body was fake and distract them from their main message. But as far as I know we don’t have any evidence of such a polemic, whereas we have some for the theory that the disciples stole the body (Matt. 28:15).

Second, if Peter and the disciples were prone to visions, then we would expect them claiming visions of Jesus all the way to the end of their lives. Sort of like how some modern-day preachers constantly claim to have a direct message or vision from God. But we don’t have any such evidence. There are no more widely accepted claims of visions of Jesus after Paul’s. Instead, the visions of Jesus stopped rather abruptly and the list of people who were “certified” to have them were “codified” in 1 Cor. 15:3-7.

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People have visions. No major detailed explanation needed. People also not-uncommonly experience drastic changes in their personal faith and beliefs. I don’t see why it should require some extraordinary supernatural event for Jesus’s brother to change his view after Jesus’s gruesome and painful death. That alone could do it.

How do we know they did not continue to have visions? Is there some detailed account where their lives are documented and it is said “And they never again had any visions”?

Also, what is more anomalous and unlikely: Someone having visions, and then not having them anymore? Or someone being dead, and then coming back to life?

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Hi @dga471,

Good points. Regarding the first, one could argue that the reason why there was no polemic about a fake body is simply that the Jewish high priests decided against exhibiting the body in public, concluding that it would merely add fuel to the fire and give the Jesus movement unnecessary publicity. And the reason why there was a polemic about the disciples stealing the body was that they were the obvious suspects, given that the original tomb of Jesus was empty. Nobody would have suspected the Jewish priests.

Regarding the second, I’d like to quote what Maurice Casey says in chapter 12 of his book about post-mortem apparitions, which as he notes are common in all cultures. Casey relies heavily on research reported by Dale Allison (who is himself a Christian), in his recent book, Resurrecting Jesus (T & T Clark International, 2005). Casey writes:

The current situation is that ‘all parts of the general public report a high incidence of … contact with the dead’, including ‘visions while wide awake’. These include shared experiences, when ‘more than one person saw a apparition’. [Footnote 60 - Allison, Resurrecting Jesus, pp. 273-275, summarizing a lot of collected evidence of people’s experiences] Summarizing reports as well as verified experiences, so a situation analogous to the Gospel narratives as well as the tradition in 1 Cor. 15:3-7, Allison [footnote 61 - Allison, Resurrecting Jesus, pp. 278-282, citing investigative reports and extensive footnotes] concludes, among other points, that there are numerous reports of apparitions in which departed people ‘are both seen and heard’, though ‘they tend to say little’; ‘are seen now by one person and later by another’; ‘are seen by more than one percipient at the same time’; ‘are sometimes seen by some but not all present’; ‘create doubt in some percipients’; ‘give guidance and make requests or issue imperatives’; ‘are overwhelmingly real and indeed seemingly solid’; ‘appear and disappear in unusual and abrupt ways’; ‘are not perceived as apparitional at the beginning of the experience’; and ‘are seen less and less as more and more time follows their death’.

I should add that with Marian apparitions, these also tend to fade away with the passage of time: they typically last for no more than a few months (Medjugorje being the sole exception that I am aware of).

Interestingly, William Lane Craig has written a highly respectful review of Allison’s book here. Craig’s two main beefs with Allison’s book are that (i) Allison objects to the notion of Jesus’ body being raised from the tomb on primarily philosophical grounds, rather than scientific or historical grounds; and (ii) Allison’s explanation of the empty tomb is ad hoc, whereas the Resurrection hypothesis is simpler and more straightforward. By contrast, the “devil’s advocate” hypothesis I put forward above suggests a non-arbitrary reason why the Jewish priests would have wanted to move the body, and why they would not have wanted to publicize the fact. What ties the ten assumptions together are: Jesus’ public mission of healing, his understanding that his mission eventually entailed dying in Jerusalem, his belief that he would be publicly vindicated by God after his death, and his prediction of his post-mortem vindication to his disciples, plus the Jewish priests’ fear of the rising Jesus movement.

I certainly wouldn’t claim that the “devil’s hypothesis” I’ve proposed is a terribly convincing one, or even a probable one. But it sounds quite plausible. And I think that a skeptic might maintain that when it comes to miracles, all you have to do is suggest a reasonably plausible alternative naturalistic hypothesis, given that the prior probabilities are incalculable anyway. Thoughts?

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I agree. In addition it ignores the prophetic nature of the Tanakh as your description contradicts its predictions.

Hi @colewd,

What would you say is the most convincing prophecy of the Resurrection in the Tanakh?

I really think it is the collection of prophecies including Isaiah and the psalms. Once you see the prophetic nature of the Tanakh it gives you confidence to the authenticity of the Bible. Not word for word but as an overall message. The prophecy of Jesus (Moses describing a future prophet speaking Gods words and Isaiah’s suffering servant) and the time identification of the Messiah in Daniel 9.

This gives me confidence of the reality that the creator was the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Messiah. Once you get confidence of this then the Resurrection becomes an event that has a much higher prior probability as we have evidence the creator can create intelligent life de novo.

Isaiah 8-9

For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth

Isaiah 11-12

After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

That’s not what happens in the Gospels, is it? He’s not thrown into common grave with criminals.

Yeah, that’s real specific.

And these are the best prophecies?

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Who do you think the rich is?

There are a collection of prophecies. Unless you understand the book you will take it out of context.

Who cares. The NT story is that he was buried alone in a tomb. This “prophecy” has him buried with a bunch of other guys. That’s a failed prophecy, obviously.

If you have to twist the words around and reframe them to fit some sort of pre-determined “context”, they aren’t prophecies. They’re just more made up stuff.

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You don’t have to twist the words around you just have to understand the overall message to put them into context. Like any other academic exercise you need to understand both the big picture and the detail. Without the big picture you cannot put the detail into context. If you are trying to defeat the argument by cherry picking you will only fool those that don’t understand the big picture.

The prophecy does not say he was put in a common burial ground it just mentions rich and wicked. The identification of the rich is significant because Joseph of Arimathea was identified in all 4 Gospels as the one who asked for Jesus body and provided him a tomb. He was a member of the Jewish council.

I am trying to show you how some of the dots may connect. The Bible has a common theme throughout it. The scriptures must be understood in context with the overall book. One of @swamidass theological resources is NT Wright who is a personal favorite of my wife who is an Episcopal priest. He wrote:

When you think of scriptural passages which point to a coming king, Isaiah chapters 9 and 11 come to mind. When you think of a royal figure who will suffer to bring about God’s long-planned redemption, the ‘servant songs’ in Isaiah 40–55, climaxing in chapter 53, are the obvious places to go. And when you reflect that the New Testament celebrates the strange victory of God, through his anointed one, over all the dark forces in the world, all with the aim of bringing about the new heavens and new earth, then Isaiah 56–66 are the natural place to look.

Absolutely, if we are reading the Bible as a documentation of a particular line of thought that has been developed over the course of centuries in a particular civilization, which is what I see it as.

But if you are claiming something to be a "prophecy’, then it’s meaning must be clear before the predicted events have been transpired. Otherwise, you are just retrofitting events to fit something someone wrote in the past.

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I agree.

Isaiah’s descriptions of the suffering servant fits very well the description of Jesus in the new Testament.

It is interesting that when Jesus returned to Nazareth and was given the scroll of Isaiah he read the first lines of the 61st chapter and then declared that in their hearing the scripture was fulfilled.

Isaiah 61 1-2

The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners,[a]
2 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,

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