An interesting perspective from Joel Edmund Anderson:
J.P. Moreland and the Book “Theistic Evolution”:
Part 1: What do William Paley, Richard Dawkins, and J.P. Moreland all have in common?
Part 2: Young Earth Creationist Arguments…Applied Inconsistently
Yes, of course I agree. I think that the tautologicalness of MN depends on what one means by terms such as science/natural/supernatural and the formulation of MN that one holds. This is one such formulation in which MN is not tautological. However, I cannot deny that there are other formulations that sounds just at reasonable to me, yet renders MN tautological.
I don’t think that this statement assumes that material interaction is all there is, but it does assume that all that is observable stems from natural causes. I think this is reasonable as our senses works through material interactions.
At the least, it’s a philosophical position that “nature” or “matter” can be a cause for a phenomenon in itself.
Science as discipline seems to presuppose materialism. I think that’s why any theism that depends on a worldview shaped by science tends towards deism or pantheism… i.e that all material interactions are pre programmed (deism)… or that nature somehow shapes itself and creates itself (pantheism).
Correct. However, presupposing that nature can be the cause of phenomena is pretty reasonable to me.
Except that we don’t know what “nature” is or whether it has agency. Let me give you an example.
Suppose I chop down a tree with an Axe. Then the reason for the tree being chopped down is the interaction of the axe and the tree…
However, the real reason for the tree being chopped down is my actions.
What if Science just sees the Axe, and gives properties for he axe which it doesn’t really have and makes approximate models which mimic how it looks like when a conscious agent chops the tree…
You guys are off topic. How about starting a new threat to hash it out.
Sorry, you are right. Got carried away… will stop messing up this thread.
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