Greetings, great to be here!

Conversation
#1

Hello, Peaceful Science! I hope this is an ok way to do an intro, but I figure everyone’s probably pretty chill, so… yeah.

I’ve been lurking here since last month. I’m 30, a former YEC and ex-Christian. Approximately a year or so ago now, I was exposed to the first non-YEC material on evolution, and it ended up starting something of a journey of discovery for me not just about science but about the structure of my deeply held beliefs in general.

Anyway, I had been on Reddit’s r/debateevolution until about 3 months ago. Unfortunately due to the way Reddit works, it’s difficult to make a space where bridges can be built effectively. Basically, I had to take a break from the toxicity, as it was taking a toll on my ability to be empathetic.

I first heard of @swamidass on Capturing Christianity’s YouTube channel, but my first real exposure to him was the interview with Pinecreek. It took a while for me to appreciate the ideas introduced during that interview, but they really stuck with me.

I had no idea about Peaceful Science until a video on the Gutsick Gibbon YouTube channel mentioned it and connected all the dots.

What I love so far about PS:

  • Experts in the field from multiple faith/non-faith traditions coming together to discuss science
  • The effort to reach YECs
  • Conversations about religion and religious ideas from multiple angles
  • Engagement from members of Creationist organizations
  • Learning new things almost every day
  • Appreciating how much I don’t know

My interests lie in:

  • What differentiates former YEC Christians from former YEC ex-Christians
  • Religion and belief
  • Learning how to have better and more constructive conversations
  • Watching scientists engage YEC stuff

Weaknesses:

  • Layman, some calc and physics/chem exposure in college, but that’s it
  • Difficulty understanding scientific papers without guidance
  • Can be sarcastic, though I really think I’ve improved
  • Not as empathetic as I could be

I think you all are doing something special here, and I’m excited to be a part of it!

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#2

Thank you for introducing yourself. I enjoyed reading your story about how you found us. It’s great to have you here!

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#3

Hi slightly odd guy, judging by your nickname, you’ll fit right in. :upside_down_face:

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#4

Thanks for showing up. It’s stories like yours that give me some hope. Perhaps at some point you can elaborate on just what began your doubts about YEC and what eventually confirmed them for you.

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#5

Pleasure to meet you @SlightlyOddGuy and I am glad you are here.

What changed your mind?

This was my journey out of YEC: https://peacefulscience.org/swamidass-confident-fatih.pdf . What do you see in it?

Tell me more. What ideas specifically are you talking about?

I remember that interview. I was driving Doug nuts :slight_smile: . In fairness, I should learn to make my answers shorter.

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#6

Something else you might want to consider is that there are churches and denominations where YEC is not required and may even have little or no following. Also, some early Christians assumed that the earth may have been recently created but it wasn’t quite dogma and this was not exactly the same ideology as the modern YEC movement. If you want to cast your net even wider than that maybe look up Jewish interpretations of Genesis, etc.

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#7

I appreciate such a well-structured introduction from a new PS forum participant. Very helpful.

Yes. That is a fascinating question. (And for the record, I’m a former YEC and still a Christ-follower.)

As to “slightly odd guy”, that description would probably fit a great many of us here. (However, in all honestly, I’m probably more of a “very odd guy.”)

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#8

I want to take issue with one thing in your initial post: listing ‘Can be sarcastic’ under weaknesses.

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#9

I have seen you lurking (liking posts) :slight_smile: It’s nice to know your story - thanks for sharing.

I also live in WA state (north of Seattle).

#10

Thanks!

I really hope so!

Yeah, I’ve put a lot of thought into it, and I think there were a lot of things that converged, but I think the biggest factor was moving across the state. It took me out of my community that had been constantly reinforcing and isolating my beliefs and allowed me to “be okay” with beginning to challenge them. Somebody once described it as “having all the furniture in the right place, I just needed to turn on the light.”

I remember, it’s so vivid in my mind, the first time I conscious pulled out one of the Jenga blocks from my YEC belief tower. I was listening to a YouTube video playlist on my phone, and one of the videos that popped up was about the basics of evolution—from an actual evolutionist instead of filtered through YEC sources. I couldn’t finish the video. I was agitated, breathing heavily, even my hands were trembling.

Twenty minutes later, I was like, “that was totally nuts”, and admitted to myself that was an extremely unhealthy reaction, and that truth has no need to fear scrutiny. I decided to go back and watch the rest of it. And once I did, it was like everything just clicked. It made so much sense.

Anyway, that was pretty long and my morning break is over, I’ll try to get some more replies in later.

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#11

There were YEC’s in my church, but I never thought YEC was a true requirement of being a Christian, nor did I think YEC somehow discredited Christianity. As I grew towards adulthood I slowly realized that I just didn’t care if I believed which gave way to realizing that I didn’t believe. There was never an “Aha!” moment for me. The congregation I grew up in was actually quite accepting and I never felt any pressure to believe. In fact, there was a lesbian couple that was openly welcomed, and this was in the late 1980’s in one of the deepest red states. I was always proud of that congregation for how they handled that situation.

Overall, my experience within the church was great, and I never had a single bad experience. The families I knew in the church were all upstanding and welcoming people. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about anyone in that congregation. I just didn’t believe. My mother will still ask me to go to church once every few years (e.g. “It’s Mother’s Day, you have to come to church with me”) and I am always happy to oblige. I actually enjoy seeing people I haven’t seen in years.

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#12

Fascinating. Must have been some video. Can you remember anything about it — whose it was, for example? Or was that particular video just the first one you happened to come across with your furniture in place?

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#13

I recognize that username. Welcome.

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#14

Haha, well, maybe the value is… context dependent.

You’re welcome, and it’s good to see a fellow Seattlite (or near Seattlite) here. I’m down in the Laurelhurst neighborhood of Seattle, though originally from Spokane.

I think it was phylogeny related from wither Aaron Ra or Thunderfoot. I think it was so impactful to me because it was the first time evolution had been described to me in a way that made sense.

@T_aquaticus, thanks for sharing. That sounds like such a chill environment, I’m a little jealous. I think the country could use more churches like that.

Thanks! I enjoy your videos.

#15

Yes, I’ve noticed everyone here has very unique personalities! I’d love to hear your story sometime. I’d imagine it’s related to your field?

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#16

I think one of the most valuable benefits to leaving YEC was exposure to other views. Some I had heard of, but never really explored, and others have been completely new. Still haven’t looked at Jewish interpretations, though.

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#17

Thanks, that was a good read. I think if I contrast your journey with my own, what sticks out to me is you had experiences and encounters with people holding pretty different views that changed the way you viewed scripture and its interpretation. Oh, by the way, I wanted to mention that your analogy comparing basing faith on rigid interpretation/science-based arguments to building a house on sinking sand is exactly how I’ve described that very thing in the past. I got a kick out of that.

My church and community, and I’m sure this is a common story, were very narrow in their interpretation—considerations of different ideas about origins especially was getting really close to denying the inerrancy of scripture. I definitely did not have a framework to bridge that kind of gap. I don’t think you mention it there, but was your family/community supportive of your transition from YEC?

I think the willingness to build bridges and bring people together, and the GAE. While I didn’t appreciate the latter at the time, I think it’s a really important idea for people who are in communities like I was, who may otherwise steer away from mainstream science because it conflicts with their understanding of the text.

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#18

I’m in Wedgwood neigborhood, about 2 1/2 miles north of Laurelhurst, so in between the two of you.

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#19

I actually live in Skagit County. So a little more north of Seattle. :slightly_smiling_face: So you guys live closer together. I don’t know Seattle that well…

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#20

Welcome. And thank you for giving this important perspective. We generally don’t hear enough from lurkers, pro or con.

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