Dr. S is on record here asking me to leave my “YEC idols and follow Jesus”. Is this the kind of peace you are seeking? I cannot be a part of that.
Most Christians would not consider that blasphemous.
Not really. Blasphemy is showing contempt for God or dishonoring the holiness of God.
Praising God for the beauty and wonder of his creation is not blasphemous.
This is not bridge-building. But more than that, it is overweening confidence in your position and is completely unwarranted.
It is not unwarranted when God has filled his creation with abundant witness to billions of years of earth history. Why do you defy what God has so clearly revealed—especially when the Bible makes no statements about the age of the earth?
@r_speir, could it possibly be that your “overweening confidence in your position” is “completely unwarranted”? Why or why not?
…he said with, apparently, no sense of irony whatsoever.
I do. And good for him.
You go to far. It’s not “massive”. It’s not “exponential”. The ranks have experienced “crumbling” when a noted personality leaves the ranks or express sincere doubt. And we definitely see “major flaws” in the evolutionary paradigm at least yearly, sometimes more often than that. You have overstated your position.
Sorry, I don’t have transcripts of multiple private conversations. I retract nothing. Ask him yourself.
I just contacted Todd Wood.
Todd Wood, you are a hit on Peaceful Science today but someone is claiming to be your long-time friend - a Kenneth Turner - and is probably misquoting you, unless you truly believe the micro-vs-macroevolution distinction is a “joke”.
It sure would be nice to hear from you, or even at Peaceful Science to clear up the matter. I know you are different in your views, but I think Kenneth Turner (possibly others) have taken undue liberties and read-into your most recent blog post."
I also supplied him the link.
Thanks for doing this. Seems like the most productive way to resolve this.
Great. I hope you post his reply.
Now for some nuance. The most normative understanding of “micro-evolution” is at or under the level of species. So any “evolution” above this level is “macro-evolution.” But the standard modern YEC understanding allows for “evolution” (though they prefer terms like “adaptation”) well above this taxonomic level, including family or even higher. So, by standard definition, YEC allows for “macro-evolution” (look up Paul Garner for some proof). Obviously, YEC maintains limits at some point.
(Interestingly, standard OEC models allow for less “evolution” than YECs!)
That’s not what I wrote. I discussed “anti-evolution” idols. Many YEC I know are not anti-evolution. Don’t you agree that Jesus is greater than your opposition to evolution?
Yes, Todd is quite aware of definitions.
When did Todd Wood tell you that the micro-macroevolution distinction is a “joke”?
He didn’t use the word “joke” for this, but he told me (among other things) that he disagreed with the normal micro vs. macro distinction in 2011-2012.
are you aware that the standard definition of “macro-evolution” is at or above the species level? if so, do you agree that “evolution” includes speciation and then some? (if so, you agree with macro-evolution)
We can find the quote. I would not misquote you.
Yes we can find the quote. See here. Note, as well, that I never said YEC-idols. You certainly did misquote me. I said anti-evolution idols:
One of the clear tells is that you are willing to work with OECs to discuss an old earth as a possible interpretation, but you won’t do the same with Christians that affirm evolution. That double talk it not honest or good faith.
You have the presupposition that evolution is in conflict with Scripture, but that presupposition can’t be found in Scripture. Someday I hope you are willing to trust God’s Word over your own presuppositions.
I’d like @r_speir to explain his exegesis of texts and what especially he finds about evolution that is in conflict with Scripture. I’m curious if it’s different or similar to my views.
To be fair:
I think you did clarify that you are not saying it is, but I would caution you that I do think you project your experience onto what you think others’ motivations might be. I understand this because I’m judgmental this way too. I sort of think we have a similar personality.
It’s been 13 hours and you appear to have moved on from your quest to find this quote. Do you have the character to admit you were wrong and - dare I suggest - even apologize?