32 posts were split to a new topic: Is There A Difference Between Secular and Atheist?
Fascinating. I loved the comic. Unfortunately, none of the ārevelationsā within it rattled me in any way. Even so, it got me thinking about my own deconstruction of my ācheap condoā (the Morris-Whitcomb-Gish ācreation scienceā of my church background) and what it took for me to replace it with solid science and a new kind of worldview. For me, there was no backfire-effect. Why? That is, why did I find my way out of my former viewpoint while many of my YEC colleagues have changed their views very little in the half century since?
Do I have a defective amygdala, perhaps? Or am I just a godless heathen masquerading as an evangelical? (Iāve been accused of that many times by evolution-hating Christian fundamentalists.) Iāve even been told that it is all a lie and that I was never a Young Earth Creationistāand certainly never a Christian!
I also was once upon a time a fairly traditional Calvinist, until I became a Molinist. It would be fascinating to do a large scale study of people who have and havenāt undergone major thought changes, complete with brain scans.
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It shouldnāt rattle you. You have already examined your preconceptions and adjusted your beliefs accordingly. Your faith is sincere, based upon the value of faith itself*, and not subject to scientific questioning.
* Thatās my wording for how I see it. I donāt mean to impose anything on you.
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Iāll bet if we did some kind of survey of Peaceful Science participants, weād probably find that a huge percentage of us shared the life-long trait of enjoying the evidence-based demolishing of ātraditional/popular factoids.ā In my generation, we probably all enjoyed the daily Ripleyās Believe It or Not newspaper syndicated cartoon, where popular beliefs were often demolished with some fascinating fact. (e.g., āThe myth that sailors used to fear sailing off the edge of a flat-earth was made popular by Washington Irving, who also wrote the Headless Horseman short story.ā or āThe exotic sounding bird heard in the African jungle in Tarzan movies is actually an Australia and New Zealand native, the Kookaburra.ā)
Indeed, how much of a role does curiosity in general play in those who tend to be willing to change ācherished viewsā? Does a competitive spirit also play a role? Do people who have survived difficult or even traumatic childhood experiences differ in their willingness to re-examine and abandon prior beliefs? (I have no idea if they do or not.)
Anyone who has participated in Internet forum debates has probably cogitated on these questions.
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Hereās your 5-day reminderā¦ though i am inclined to think it doesnt influence the Geneal.Adam scenario.
If I had time, I would argue that Christian also derive morality from compassion and empathy, just like atheists. Iām swamped at work though, so I wonāt be tackling this any time soon.
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Oh, for me, at least, there is no question about that.
The only difference is, I believe compassion and empathy was gifted to me/us by God.
I think that compassion and empathy is an evolved trait that made (make) us human.
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Iām aware.
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I donāt want to get embroiled in this discussion, but for the sake of clarification, there are distinctions to be made here, and thereās a difference between our āmoralsā and how they factor in to our decisions and actions vs. Godās Laws. For example, imagine a man and a woman who are married. They really dislike one another, and in order to escape the reality of the situation, the man has an affair with another woman.
Response one: A person could be empathetic to the stress of the situation and compassionate toward the man, and that could lead a person to, in that situation, morally accept the affair, and possible even endorse it. They could also determine that affairs are morally wrong and speak out against them.
Response two: A person could be empathetic to the stress of the situation and be compassionate toward the man that he is in a difficult situation, but remind him that Godās Laws make it clear that a man is to seek God through prayer and is to not share the bed of another woman. Endorsing the affair would clearly be amoral and against Godās word.
I do not disagree that oneās morals are not shaped and affected by attributes such as compassion and empathy. Those morals are simply different than the morals derived from Godās Laws. So, when Christians (for instance) talk about their morals, they are typically referring to the morals that come from Godās word and not from their own feelings, emotion or compassion. Both exist, but the applications of the two are often different. They are also, as many have pointed out here, very often the same. Christians often go too far in suggesting that they have morals and others do not. This is clearly not so. Non-believersā morals come from the very things Dan suggested, plus social pressure. They may or may not vary from what is set forth in Godās word.
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There is also a lot of issues with single-mindedly following the rules. Makes you unable to see wood from the trees so to speak.
Before you ask I have scriptural basis for this worldview.
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I completely agree with you that there can be many issuesā¦ I almost wrote that in my post, but didnāt want to take it too many directions at once.
I donāt think that there is a mutual exclusivity between these two means by which people come to their own flavor of morality. I was careful to include compassion and empathy in both examples. The thing that varies is the emphasis on whatās written in the scriptures, thatās all.
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