That is not long hair, it doesn’t even reach the shoulders. The beard is neatly trimmed (as I said was typical of Jewish facial hair in this era), and there are no sidelocks. There is certainly no ponytail.
Jesus-like? Copied from the shroud? That’s the Persian king Ahasuerus on the throne. A Persian king. Not even Jewish, and not remotely close to the image on the shroud.
Ok now you’re splitting hairs.
What do you mean splitting hairs?
I think that was part pun and also part you’re trying to pay attention to too much detail here.
I’m responding to the level of detail being claimed for the shroud, specifically an image of a man with long hair in a ponytail, and sidelocks. I’ve pointed out that this is anachronistic for the first century, but typical of a medieval Jewish stereotype. I wouldn’t have had to post those images if they hadn’t been requested. The level of detail I’ve gone into was specifically requested of me.
you can have as many images as you like, In this case all I need is one counterexample to show that it was possible to have a long hair at that time.
You haven’t given any counter-examples. The only example you provided was from the sixth century, which didn’t show long hair or sidelocks, and showed a well trimmed light beard.
And it doesn’t even matter to me, because that’s not the problem that I’ve set out to solve.
Well my example could be interpreted as long hair disappearing behind the person. So is _Roman era synagogue art 4.jpg
Seriously? On what basis? Would you care to submit that opinion to professional art historians?
I don’t think anyone is saying it was not possible to have long hair 2000 years ago.
Well I was skeptical at first too.
I’m actually sympathetic to your argument, and it is definitely something that I will be thinking about. I think it’s worthy of consideration, and maybe even acceptance. Let’s just leave it at that.
The very short beards, or even no beard at all, along with short hair, and in particular the complete absence of any sidelocks in any of those images, is a pretty big hint of what’s going on.
Please considerreading this
Some highlights.
“Another scholar told me that the Dura-Europos synagogue portrays Jewish men with a variety of hairstyles, sometimes lengthy ones, but added the qualifier that Dura-Europos is significantly distant from Jesus geographically and chronologically.”
"Somebody who had taken a vow and/or a prophet could have long hair. "
"Would, or could, any of these categories mentioned above have applied to Jesus? Yes. More than one of them, in fact. In various contexts, Jesus claimed to be or was perceived as a king, a close associate of a king, or a prophet, for example. And Jesus may have had long hair for some other reason or series of reasons. But even if we limit ourselves to what the extant ancient sources tell us about when a man could have long hair, there are multiple potential justifications for Jesus to have kept his hair long. "
Yeah I’ve read it. It doesn’t change anything.
I already mentioned this.
Yet they never present any evidence that he had long hair, nor do they present any evidence that it was customary for first century Jewish men to have hair which was any different to the styles we see in actually relevant artwork.
In the case of the Shroud of Turin, the believers set the bar even higher. You need to prove Jesus had long hair, in a ponytail, a long beard, and sidelocks. As I’ve pointed out, there is no evidence for this; we don’t have any evidence for Jewish sidelocks for a long time after Jesus, centuries and centuries in fact. Let alone a ponytail (!).
The fact is that the image of the man on the Turin Shroud looks just like a medieval Jewish stereotype, which is exactly what we would expect of a product of the medieval era. This is the most efficient explanation, especially after considering all the other factors.
You seem to have lost the point you are attempting to defend.
You had claimed that the fact that the image in the “shroud” has long hair was evidence for its authenticity.
If only some Jewish men had long hair at the time, this does not support that position at all, does it? We’d have to know how Jesus wore his hair.
I’m beginning to think that it’s a modern J.B. stereotype that NOBODY, not even prophets, could wear long hair, and that long hair was absolutely unacceptable. Am I misrepresenting you?
Yes. Why not just read what I wrote?
Yeah I’ve read it. It doesn’t change anything.
