The Shroud of Turin

[jety (Peter Derecskei)]

http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/jn20v8.html

[DaleCutler]

@jety

Venerating is what…

…we all do to something. Physical things are misplaced objects of honor and effort.

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord.

Venerate Synonyms

[jety (Peter Derecskei)]

I think you mean we idolize it. Well no. I took a long hard look at the shroud some time ago, made a playlist of the findings of others, and then forgot all about it. My personal interest in the shroud is that I love puzzles. It’s not in my thoughts, most of the time. THIS discussion here is what interests me, not the shroud itself. The bible is the book that points to God, and the shroud is acceptable insofar as it doesn’t contradict the bible, but supports it. I recognize my hypocrisy here. I may’ve been guilt of some veneration myself, calling the shroud the Shroud and all, and you’ve been right to point that out. But, other than that, I find no fault in my actions. God be the judge.

[DaleCutler]

@jety

I think you mean we idolize it.

If I had meant idolize, I would have said idolize. You can give something too much prominence in your attention without idolizing it. If it is preoccupying you chronically, then yes, idolize might be the right word. So I appreciate your candor, and yes, God is the judge of our hearts. (It is wise to judge our own hearts, too, as I think you are doing. )

[Lou]

@pevaquark Ray Rogers paper was peer reviewed. Also you claim Ray Rogers had beliefs in a particular supernatural activity. What supernatural activity did he believe in?

[Jonathan_Burke]

@Lou

Ray Rogers paper was peer reviewed

Yes, and this is what they said.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0040603115003093

Do you agree with their assessment?

[Giltil (Gilbert Thill)]

@swamidass

@Giltil, surely you must agree there is far more evidence for the Resurrection than for the shroud of Turin. Perhaps we just feel the evidence for the Resurrection met our threshold, but the shroud did not.

As I see it, the shroud is the only tangible, material evidence for the resurrection, all the other evidence being based on the testimonies of eyewitnesses.
And I don’t think it is wise for Christians to despise the tangible evidence. After all, the Christian religion is the religion of the incarnation where the tangible is important. God knows that, like Saint Thomas, the faith of many needs tangible evidences. And in these times of generalized apostasy, I think that the Shroud is providential

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@Giltil

And I don’t think it is wise for Christians to despise the tangible evidence.

I do not despise tangible evidence.

@Giltil

As I see it, the shroud is the only tangible, material evidence for the resurrection,

You are sadly mistaken. Do you know of the “tangible” evidence to which Pascal refers?

If you can produce strong evidence of the shroud being authentic, I’d have no reason to doubt it. I do not see it yet. If you must disagree, no bother. We don’t have to agree on this.

[Giltil (Gilbert Thill)]

@swamidass

Do you know of the “tangible” evidence to which Pascal refers?

No. I’ll be happy to know, especially for I am french😀

@swamidass

If you can produce strong evidence of the shroud being authentic, I’d have no reason to doubt it. I do not see it yet

I realize that it is probably not the case for you right now, but I am very confident that when you will have the time to dig deeper into this issue, you will be troubled, to say the least, by all the evidence pointing to the authenticity of the Shroud and by the total implausibility of the super forger thesis.

@swamidass

If you must disagree, no bother. We don’t have to agree on this.

Sure