Thoughts on the evolution of the human mind

(Jeremy Christian) #1

The “reward center” of the brain. I find this extremely curious. It’s always assumed the brain evolved, over time grew more and more complex, then eventually created the mind.

But the nature of the interaction between body and the mind, to me, seems to suggest it be the other way around entirely. It’s not the brain evolved and created the mind, it’s that the mind was there and the brain evolved around it.

All along the way there was this will that was in control of the body’s actions. The body has to coax action out of the self to get what it needs. So it evolved ways to do so.

This would suggest there’s something to suggest “life” isn’t just a biological machine. It’s a physical form that enables a will that was there all along.

Thoughts? I’ve attempted to look into what those in the know say about this, but the general consensus seems to be that it all happened the other way around. This does not compute in my mind.

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Neuroscience of the Incarnation
(Neil Rickert) #2

I expect that it is some of both.

I’m not sure that there is any such thing as “just a biological machine”.

(Jeremy Christian) #3

That’s the real question. Can all that we are, all that makes us what we are, be uploaded into a machine and duplicated? Or is there a component in the equation that can’t be materially created?

(T J Runyon) #4

How does your scenario explain mind-brain dependence? I can tweak with your brain and totally change your personality. Tumors can make you do immoral things, etc.

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(Robert Byers) #5

I don’t agree we have a brain. I don’t! The mind to me is just a memory machine. So YES our mind could be duplicated by a machine. A computer is just a memory operation machine.
Yet its our soul/heart that does the thinking. It does this with the aid of the mind/memory.
the bible is consistent on this from front to back.
However the concept of the brain must be jettisoned.

(Neil Rickert) #6

Simple answer – no.

That isn’t the only alternative.

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(30-year veteran) #7

I think this should be preserved for posterity.

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#8

Logic gates:

(Jeremy Christian) #9

If the physical brain/body enables a non-physical self (soul) to interact with the physical world, then much like a malfunctioning car, physical ailments or abnormalities can and often will have an effect. That doesn’t prove that physical manipulation manipulated the mind, only that it disabled the physical body/brain’s ability to respond and act accurately.

(T J Runyon) #10

But you said the mind was around before the brain. How did it function?

(Jeremy Christian) #11

The whole point of the “can our minds be duplicated by a machine” scenario is to discuss whether or not the mind is only a creation of a physical brain, or if it’s something that mechanical material alone can create on its own.

But I’m curious what alternative/s you had in mind.

(Jeremy Christian) #12

Just as it does now. Only then there wasn’t a physical body to act on it’s behalf.

(T J Runyon) #13

Then why even create brains? Something like 16,000 people die a year from brain cancer.

(Jeremy Christian) #14

The brain operates the physical body. It’s the link between us and the physical world. It takes in and processes physical information, physically stores that physical information, and makes it available to us. It then operates the our physical limbs enabling us to move around. It’s kind of important.

(T J Runyon) #15

I can think of a number of other conceivable ways to do that without a brain. I have property dualist leanings. Don’t have everything figured out but I am convinced the existence of the mind is in someway due to the brain

(Jeremy Christian) #16

You’re in the majority That’s the consensus view. That’s why I’m posing these thoughts. These are the reasons why, in my view, the existence of the mind is not due to the brain. It seems the logical conclusion.

The mind certainly uses the brain. The brain enables the mind, but does not create it.

(T J Runyon) #17

Though I will say I think all proposed theories of mind are flawed in some way. I think Hasker’s emergent dualism is close.

(Jeremy Christian) #18

I can’t get on board with how he bridges free will to a mechanistic system. The two worlds simply cannot coexist.

Here’s another way to put it. If the mind is the product of the brain, then why must it coax the mind into action? Why doesn’t it just take control and do it? Why dualism?

(Robert Byers) #19

Amen. A bridge between our soul and the physical world. Yet the bible provides that answer. its the mind.
The mind is just a memory operation .the bible never mentions the brain because there is no brain. Its not that complicated. Its just a soul/heart working with a memory which itself is connected to the body.
This is why our senses are just sent into the skull and only land in the memory. Then our soul reads them, or reads them while asleep called dreaming.
This is why optical illusions work. They are not illusions but revealations that we don’t have any connection with the world outside the skull. WE only get a recording/memory of it and read that including some editing in the process.
This is also what happened to Jesus. When born we was stuck to a human memory/mind. so he couldn’t remember all the God stuff he knew. thats why the bible says Jesus grew in wisdom as a kid. This would not happen if he remembered all he knew before.

Neuroscience of the Incarnation
(Neil Rickert) #20

To use an analogy, we can think of prefabricated houses. A prefab house is built elsewhere, the “uploaded” to the final location.

Uploading a mind seems something akin to that. It is built elsewhere, then uploaded.

But maybe you can only have a custom built mind. Maybe the mind has to fit so closely with everything in its final location, that a prefabricated mind cannot work properly.

That’s roughly my view.