We can only “see” the mind through the actions/behaviors of the body/brain. So any behaviors associated with the mind are impacted by it’s having to interact through an altered brain.
Your mind may want to just drive yourself home. Your mind may believe it’s fully capable of doing so. But actually doing so piloting a brain that is inebriated is a very different matter.
Again, you are ignoring how drugs can affect decision making and mood.
No, not ignoring it. Drugs affect decision making and mood because they affect the physical brain through which both decision making and mood are affected. The mind may try to make a decision, but it’s working through a brain that has been chemically altered. So decision making is affected. Same with mood. Mood physically affects the body through physically affecting the brain.
None of this confirms the mind itself is affected, only that the brain/body it’s working through is.
I played a video game once where the character I was playing had been drugged. As I’m walking through the room trying to play the game the picture began to get hazy, the movements I tried to perform through the controller got slower, sound began to fade in and out. I myself was not drugged, but the character I was controlling was. It affected my ability to play without actually affecting me.
How? A keyboard isn’t able to affect my mood or decision making. When I make a decision it is before I interact with the keyboard.
Were your inhibitions lowered while playing that section of the game? Did you make bad life decisions because your character was drugged in the video game? Did you go through massive mood changes?
My “that’s not a good description” comment was about one sentence. So obviously that one sentence is something that I disagree with.
If you want more specifics, I disagree with the idea that the brain is storing information and later retrieving that stored information. There is no evidence of this.
Our ideas about information are confused. The world in itself is devoid of information. Our radio and television channels broadcast information, but that information is all human created. The brain, together with other parts of the body, is in the business of constructing information about the world. This contrasts with computers which input and use information that was constructed elsewhere.
Yeah there is. The link T_aquaticus linked to above about decoding pictures in your head is a good example.
The keyboard analogy was good for what I was describing earlier, but it’s breaking down and causing confusion at this point.
Mood is a chemical change in the brain. It causes physical changes; heart rate, blood pressure, etc. And, like alcohol which is also a chemical change, it can have adverse effects on you.
No, but my character’s were. That’s my point. I wasn’t affected. I being the mind in this scenario. The game character is the body. My trying to act through this body that was impacted by this drug, though I wasn’t affected by the drug, my game play was.
When the body is affected chemically, the brain/body that you (your mind) uses to interact with the world is impacted.
The body, the brain, these are mechanisms. Biological machines. Machines don’t think. They just do.
Here’s an example that illustrates what I’m saying. A coma patient is able to communicate through an fMRI. They’re fully aware and conscious, they’re just in a paralyzed state. To communicate they’re asked yes/no questions. If yes, imagine yourself playing tennis. If no, imagine walking around your house.
One exercise causes one region of the brain to “light up” with activity. The other causes another region to do so. Though completely unresponsive and by all appearances unconscious, they are fully conscious and aware.
This is the willful mind controlling the brain through using it. This is not the brain initiating these activities, it’s the mind. The brain is responding.
What should be noted here is that it can’t be determined that the mind is conscious just by observing brain activity through an fMRI. There’s not a region of the brain “lit up” creating consciousness. Until that conscious mind begins imagining one of the two scenarios it cannot be determined whether or not they’re conscious.
If the conscious mind were a product of the brain, then we should be able to see the activity creating it in an fMRI.
Just to make sure I am getting this right, you are saying that emotions are a function of the brain and not of the mind.
So you were making one decision and the character on the screen made another? If so, in what way are you controlling the character?
Yes, any sensation you physically feel is caused by the brain. Including emotions.
No, I was still in control of the character, but it was very similar to being drunk. Trying to walk straight was a challenge. The character was off-balance and you’d have to make corrections to keep him on the path you were trying to walk along.
So is the mind in control of motor functions and nothing else?
Nope. Motor functions are the brain as well. The mind is the will that wants to walk to the end of the hall. The body/brain is the mechanism that makes it possible to do so.
This is the part that confuses me. People can take anti-depressants which change this will. Before taking the medication they may not feel like leaving the house, or going out in public. However, anti-depressants can change that will. So how can a chemical change the mind if the mind is not physical?
They don’t change the mind. They chemically change the state of the brain. The mind uses the brain to make decisions and to act. When that environment is chemically altered, it alters the outcome. Like the keyboard example. The typist can type the same keystrokes, but if the keyboard is altered the outcome is altered.
When someone who is depressed wants to leave the house, they’re often overcome with anxiety. That’s what anti-depressants do. They alter the chemistry of the brain so that they are not emotionally overcome when they try to do something. The environment is changed, which changes the outcome.
Then the mind isn’t independent of the brain with respect to will. The brain influences will. Everything I see points to the brain being the will.
You’re right, the mind is heavily dependent on the brain. It’s through the physical brain that the will of the non-physical mind is realized.
See the above link about coma patients for an illustration that shows the brain is not the source of the will. Through an fMRI, by observing brain activity, the mind cannot be seen. If the brain was the will we should see corresponding brain activity to account for it being created. None of that is seen. Only when the will operates the brain can we see brain activity.
That is why this exercise is necessary for determining whether or not a patient is conscious. If the brain were the will, then we should be able to see the brain activity that creates it. If that were the case this exercise would be unnecessary.
This isn’t the case. If physical drugs influence will then it is physical. If the physical brain influences will, then will is physical.
They did see corresponding brain activity. That’s the whole point. That’s what fRMI measures, brain activity.
This man was conscious/aware enough that he could hear their instructions, understand them, and follow them. He could understand the questions they were asking, and understood how to use these instructions to answer.
Even though he’s in an fMRI, unless he responds to questions, they can’t tell if he’s conscious/aware. Understand?
If consciousness/awareness/mind were a product of the brain, as you believe, that should have been seen in brain activity. Just compare the brain activity of a conscious aware mind to an unconscious one. But it wasn’t. The mind was absolutely present, yet there was no corresponding brain activity to confirm it.
What does that tell you?
@Jeremy_Christian New article. Does this chance your view of the mind not being a product of the brain?