That’s because you don’t understand English syntax. The “made up” part was Psalm 104 being by Noah or someone shortly after the flood. Do you know what “besides” means?
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What exactly gives you the right to accuse her of “making stuff up”?
The ungodly notions of evidence, expertise, and qualifications.
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@thoughtful, the enlightened here have spoken and we apparently have no choice but to endure the appeal to authority.
No, it’s the fact that claims (like Noah was the author) should come with evidence. None was provided; thus “making stuff up.” I’ve already broken my earlier decision to not converse with you @r_speir, so I’m done. You’re a prime example of the biblical “fool.”
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Isn’t this what the Protestant Reformation was all about?
I see it as both recognizing God’s goodness in His initial creation, the first few verses especially. I see an allusion to angels guarding the garden, I see the allusions to the transfiguration of Christ. I believe the rest is describing God creating anew after the flood. It has references to the few few chapters of Genesis as well.
The smoking mountains, the mountains rising and valleys falling all seem to me to be a clear reference to the world after the flood.
It does if dark matter has negative energy.
That dating means it’s always an absolute evidence of time.
Because genetics matches to historical and observational evidence.
The reason most see Psalm 104 as a creation psalm is because it walks through each of the days of creation. As much as post-flood was a renewed creation, there would be parallels, but there’s nothing that is flood/post-flood specific. I don’t mind looking for a christological/new creation layer either.
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BTW, I think Dr. Luther and Dr. Calvin would disagree with what seems to be your point here.
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Henry VIII would have had something to say, too.
To me, it’s most important how God views me. I pray that I might continue to read with this ethic.
The brothers[b] immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
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Yes, I agree. And I think you’ve shown yourself valiantly on this thread…which is why many of us enjoy engaging with you. (Valiant Valerie has a nice ring to it!) When we push back, it’s in a friendly spirit and (hopefully…at least at our best) within the pursuit of truth. Unfortunately, that’s not always this case with others.
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Look at Matthew 17
And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light.
Psalm 104
You are clothed with splendor and majesty,
2 covering yourself with light as with a garment,
In this section, notice the waters are above the mountains. Then somehow the waters went up over the mountains, after the waters fled. I searched out various commentaries. They didn’t have agreement, but I think it’s saying the waters rose with the mountains. But you know the Hebrew, so it’d be interesting to know how you see it. But that description fits a post-global-flood world, again as I said the mountains smoking do.
Yes, I can see that it parallels Genesis 1. I see there also a parallel to Habukkuk Habakkuk 3 NKJV - The Prophet’s Prayer - A prayer of - Bible Gateway which also seems to parallel judgment. It seems a clear reference to a renewed creation through judgment.
The waters stood above the mountains.
7 At Your rebuke they fled;
At the voice of Your thunder they hastened away.
8 [c]They went up over the mountains;
They went down into the valleys,
To the place which You founded for them.
9 You have set a boundary that they may not pass over,
That they may not return to cover the earth.
Thanks! My oldest son’s name is Victor. Valerie means “strength” I believe, so it fits.
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That doesn’t make any sense. It sounds like you are just making stuff up.
That’s not an assumption. The conclusion is supported by consilience between multiple independent methods.
That’s false. By your own words, your claims about genetics clashes with the observational evidence of age in rocks.
Well you should know better than that. The biblical fool does not believe in God. You must have pulled that one out of the air [Ha. You made it up]
Anyway, you really have no right to accuse others of making stuff up when this forum is replete with individuals who do that every day all day, and you are no exception.
Look at Matthew 17
That’s actually pretty cool! Nice find.
No, the text (Ps 104:6) said the waters “stood” (not “rose”) above the mountains. That’s exactly the picture we have in Gen 1 before the emergence of the land in Day 3.
The whole thing fits Gen 1 just fine. I see nothing in the smoking mountains that focuses on post-flood.
I just finished a commentary on Habakkuk. The imagery in ch. 3 is of theophany, but the historical backdrop is no historically specific moment (creation, the flood, the exodus, and the conquest are all in view). The point is that the same God who has acted in the past (for creation and redemption) will act again to end the exile.
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Thanks!
I should have been more specific. I’m referring to verse 8. Psalm 104:8 the mountains rose and the valleys sank to the place You assigned for them-- There seem to be wide differences in translation - some translations have the pronoun “they” (I’m assuming that refers to waters) and others just say the mountains rose and the valleys sank. I’m wondering if the differences should be melded into one idea - it seems the Hebrew is confusing.
So do you think it refers to theophany at all those moments?
It’s actually a real theory out there. As I was looking at Bible passages, I realized that they were saying there was waters/fluid in the heavens. So they, like water, would be transparent, so that would be dark matter we’ve observed. I don’t know why I thought so at the time but I wondered if it had negative energy - perhaps to balance things out. So I googled that and got this theory.
Apparently, it was controversial, and cosmologists weren’t thrilled about the press coverage. 
Later, after I read Farnes’ article, I found these videos helpful. Notice, in the first one at 10:00 minutes he talks about this proposal breaks causality, but yeah, he hates it 
Anton is more generous. He realizes it makes cosmologists angry but it sort of makes sense. 
More observations are needed to prove it right or wrong.
Anton also mentions that dark matter should stick together, and this proposal would make it too thin and the proposal describes an “ocean” of this mass fluid. Sounds like a biblical description.
And I had come across this just before watching this video months ago. https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-cosmic-tension-the-universe-might-be-too-thin-20200908/
@thoughtful, you have every reason to hold your position about Ps 104 and Noah’s Flood.
Seek out conservative scholars who esteem the Bible text as inerrant and fully authoritative, who do not believe in evolution, and who hold God in fearful and reverent esteem. Here is one extract from a good article.
"We would disagree that it is a creation account as Genesis 1 is. Two verses in the psalm (Psalm 104:5, 19) refer to the events in Genesis 1. But most of the psalm speaks of the creation as it appears to the psalmist at the time he is living and writing. This is evident in the way the subject matter is described (particularly the present tense verbs). Also the psalm mentions Lebanon (Psalm 104:16), ships (Psalm 104:26), and wicked sinners (Psalm 104:35), none of which existed during the Creation Week.
Another reason to reject the claim that Psalm 104 is a creation account is that, contrary to what many old-earth proponents believe, Psalm 104:6–9 clearly refer to Noah’s Flood, not to the third day of Creation Week. This is seen in the allusion in v. 9 to the rainbow promise in Genesis 9:11, which is also referred to in Isaiah 54:9. God made no such promise at the end of Day Three of Creation Week. If He had made such a promise in Genesis 1, the global Flood of Noah’s day would have been a breaking of His promise."
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