Visualization/Animation of Objections to Old Age Geological Column

Neither. The same source can produce different sorts of strata depending on all sorts of factors of erosion, weathering, and transport. Most simply put, smaller particles travel farther away from land, so if sea level rises, you get shale at spot X, while if it falls, you get sandstone. And those color differences you see are not caused by big differences in composition. Wind can also sort sediments, incidentally.

The layers aren’t the result of deposition from different sources or even of deposition at different times. Those are wind-blown dunes you have there. There is no contact zone that I can see, just crossbedded dunes. I think you need to learn something about geology before you start making claims. Your colorful pictures do nothing for you, just as in biology.

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Visualization of cross bedded deposits from windblown sand dunes.

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This is an aeolian sandstone, deposited in an arid environment. A modern day equivalent would be the Sahara which is 3000 x 1000 miles in size.

There is no problem for desert sand to come from hundreds or even thousands of kilometers away. Wind does that to the land if there is no vegetation.

The colours you see could be primary but are more likely diagenetic, .i.e. post-depositional leeching effects of weathering and groundwater (yes it does rain sometimes even in the Sahara).

You must be careful with interpreting 3D structures from 2D photos. In aeolian sands there will be a lot of steep cross-bedding that can go in different directions and might look like deformation from some angles. Dunes move, get partially eroded and then covered again with new sand blown from a different direction. Locally there could perhaps be soft sediment deformation especially if there have been occasional episodes of torrential rain or flash floods.

Desert sands can be identified by the nature and sorting of the sand grains, by wind erosion of occasional pebbles, by the already mentioned steep crossbedding (steeper than for sand formed under water). They can be found associated with conglomerates deposited by ephemeral streams, and with silts, clays and evaporites deposited in sabkhas and playa lakes. Sometimes one can find the odd fossil, or tracks made by animals. In the playa lake clays you often see desiccation mud cracks and perhaps some fossil plant roots.

All of this tells you right there and then that, whatever else, these sands were obviously not deposited by a global flood.

To deposit and preserve such thicknesses you are looking at subsiding basins. The Earth crust is not rigid and can flex up and own in repsonse to tectonic forces and bulging in the underlying mantle. This can create space for very thick sediment piles. The weight of these sediments adds to the subsidence (but doesn’t cause it).

After the period of desert sedimentation, if the subsidence is still ongoing and sea levels rise, all of this can eventually be covered in younger, marine strata. That way it gets preserved until at a much later time the region gets uplifted, eroded and it all gets exposed again - for us to study and marvel at.

By the way, such sands can be excellent hydrocarbon reservoirs because of their grain size and good sorting, as well as the absence of clay layers that can cause permeability problems in water-lain sandstones. Very famous are the Permian Rotliegend Sandstones that hold large gas reserves below the North Sea and surrounding land areas. Because of that, such sands have been extensively studied in outcrop, in modern analogs and in boreholes. They are very well understood.

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About 12 years ago my company was tasked with finding a suitable geological reservoir for sequestration of greenhouse and corrosive waste gases from a natural gas processing plant in the northwestern corner of New Mexico (in the San Juan Basin).

After reviewing the properties of the Dakota and Morrison formations, we concluded that the deeper and thicker Entrada Sandsone was the best target. The Entrada is also a very extensive Jurassic erg, with large overlapping cross-beds typical of desert sand dunes.

You can see some excellent outcrops of the Entrada only a few miles west of my home, at an elevation of about 5,600’. At our well site 200 miles away, we calculated (from logs from nearby wells and structural analyses) that the top of the Entrada would lie about 6,000 feet beneath our feet.

Using mud logging and logging-while-drilling (natural gamma) we picked the Entrada top within 10 feet. The cores that we collected looked (and matched with chemical, physical and microscopic analyses) were identical to those outcrops 200 miles away.

The injection well was successful, and has accepted about 5 million cubic feet per day of waste gases for over a decade.

Our “old earth geology” was convincing enough to make some very hard-headed, bottom-line gas company managers to trust us when we recommended a $5 million well. This well has paid off many times over in treatment and disposal costs (and got us over 20 more similar projects - all successful).

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I don’t see how you could do hydrocarbon exploration using a YEC framework. All the obvious easy bumps have been drilled already. These days prospects rely massively on detailed geological models attempting to describe the geological history of your target area in space and time, from which flow predictions about the types of rock and their development that you can reasonably expect when drilling an exploration well. Only with such models you can make predictions that let you assess the risks and benefits of drilling in a particular spot.

YEC offers nothing at all towards making such models. It has no concept of depositional systems nor of their interrelation. It has no concept of vertical changes in the rock column as a function of time and external parameters. It isn’t going to predict anything about the presence of hydrocarbon source rocks, their potential or their maturity and capability of generating oil and gas.

Assuming YEC and a Global Flood you would have nothing that allows you to correlate in between wells or meaningfully extrapolate away from wells (apart from geophysics, that in the YEC case will only be locally calibrated and therefore give you no more than some crude geometric insights). So, you cannot build geological models, you cannot predict what you are going to find (with reasonable error bars) and therefore you cannot even begin to run volumetrics, risk assessment or economics on your prospect.

No company management will ever approve your well proposals because you will not be able to demonstrate that they are a good investment. You will be useless an an employee.

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I would love to see a YEC try to work as a geologist in the Permian Basin. Here we have four distinct sequences (large cycles in sea level) spanning 47 my (252 to 299 mya). These sequences are called the Wolfcamp, the Leonard, the Guadalupian and the Ochoan series. Each of these series has left behind a characteristic shelf/reef/slope/basin facies structure, and these are stacked over each other totalling thousands of feet of rock each.

The lower Wolfcamp and Leonard series have deposited several reef complexes in New Mexico and west Texas, each following the general depositional model.

The Abo Reef (Leonard) is well shown in this seismic section.

Further up the section, a very similar architecture of reef facies is seen in the Guadalupian. The Gualupian Reef is the host of the well-known Carlsbad Caverns.

Our knowledge of the Permian Basin is based on the logs from over 50,000 wells, and thousands of miles of seismic survey lines; much of these data are freely available from state and Federal resources.

Extra credit Sal: How did all of this happen in a one-year Flood?

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Good stuff!

Your question will of course be ignored, just like the YECs ignore everything that falsifies their ideas: isochrons, varves, tree rings, missing isotopes, aeolian deposits, reefs, fossil roots and animal footprints in the middle of the supposed flood sediments, the sorting of the fossils, evidence of multiple glaciations in the middle of the supposed flood sediments, masses of angular unconformities, the physics of sea floor spreading and oceanic crust formation, geomagnetic reversals, and more, and more…but most of all the excellent consilience between many independent lines of evidence.

They never apply the same arguments from improbability to their own ideas that they try (and fail, by the way) to apply to evolution.

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Even the Grand Staircase formations that Sal is on about change markedly in thickness and facies over their expanse. He talks about a uniformity that doesn’t exist.

Here is another astonishing consilience:

It has long been known (since some time in the 19th century) that the succession of sedimentary strata found in NW Europe, e.g. England, reflects systematic changes in the climate during their deposition. Starting with the Devonian red-bed sediments, these display the characteristics of hot and arid climate (desert environments in particular - Old Red sandstone). After that we have the Carboniferous with the immense coal deposits, as you would get in a hot and humid, tropical climate. Following on from those we see red bed desert environments return in the Permo-Triassic (New Red sandstone). Then we get into the more temperate limestones of the Jurassic and Cretaceous.

Before the advent of plate tectonics it was thought that this reflects just local changes in the climate here. Plate tectonics suggested another possibility: that this part of the world has actually moved across the globe in the 500-odd million years since the Devonian.

Then paleomagnetic analysis came along, and with it the capability of working out the actual latitudes where the sediments were deposited. And guess what? It turned out that during the Devonian these areas were located in the Southern hemisphere arid climate belt, then moved North via the tropics (in the Carboniferous), onwards into the Northern arid climate belt (in the Permo-Triassic) and then finally into the Northern temperate zone (during the Jurassic and Cretaceous). All at speeds consistent with modern observed spreading rates

You can hardly find a more beautiful consilience between two entirely independent lines of evidence, recognised a century apart. All this is very nicely illustrated on the Open University website. (Obviously that is just a high level summary, there are literally thousands of papers dedicated to this subject).

Any thoughts, Sal?

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You think the alternating white and orange layers are the result of wind blown dunes? How do you know that outside of assertions from confirmation bias in peer-reviewed literature?

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Me too.

I met YEC geologist Tim Clarey who was a professor of geology and a geologist in the petroleum industry. He presently works in the ICR and I hope to coordinate with him on some projects in the future.

The Permian Basin was exactly what first inspired me toward the vizualization project:

It has the same sort of problems that the grans staircase does. I’m surprised you can’t see it. Plain as day. If you can’t see it, or conceptualize it, then that’s exactly the reason for this visualization project!

For the record I began being bothered by the mainstream claim about the evolution of the Permian basin in June 2015.

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/wytch-farm/comment-page-2/#comment-69684

So, let not people insinuate that I haven’t thought of the Permian Basin!

So…

How do four marine sequences construct several thousand feet of four stacked reef complexes in one Flooding year?

I had to chuckle when reading that post.

Two questions you asked:

what happened to the sediments of eroded mountain ranges in an Old Earth scenario?

and

“where did all those sediments come from” to create the fossil layers?

In the same post !

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That’d be none. You haven’t listed a single problem with he grand staircase.

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Yeah. Further evidence in support of an Ironic Designer.

Is this the gentleman you refer to?

I think Sal has a problem regarding the sedimentation over the Central Platform

I have worked in this area and here’s a little case study. We were looking for an injection reservoir near a gas plant in SE NM. Our area was right on the “nose” of the Central Platform, and facies and thicknesses changes abruptly off the nose.

A more detailed map of the study area, based on numerous well logs, showed that our target, the Bone Springs, was very thin under the plant, but became much thicker a mile or so to the north.

An interpreted cross-section shows that the Central Platform was tectonically active up to the middle Leonardian, but the faulting stopped before the Guadalupian sequence. The faulting strongly controlled the depositional facies in this area, and also controlled the thickness of the pre-Guadalupian beds. The Guadalupian beds also were, to some extent, draped over the Platform (note those pesky stacked reefs again).

Further study required seismic analyses to determine how far north and how thick the Bone Springs was in our area. The seismic section below shows that the Bone Springs did thicken dramatically to the north.

About one mile north of the plant, the thickness of the Bone Springs (highlighted in yellow) grew from a few ten’s of feet to over 150 feet. We placed the well there, and constructed a pipeline to convey the gases from the plant to the well.

Now the well takes 6 to 8 million cubic feet of gases per day with steady pressures.

So, how did all of this faulting, syndepositional facies formation, more faulting, end of faulting and the over draping of 8,000 feet of more rocks happen in one Floody year?

We can see the same cross bedding in modern sand dunes.

image

You and others would probably be interested in Glenn Morton’s story:

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