Welcome rtmcdge

That’s a conclusion derived from data, not a mere assertion.

Irrelevant. Either their reasoning is correct or it is not, regardless of whether they accept creationism. And you don’t have a creation model.

There’s a lot you don’t understand, for example that you are confusing two different hypotheses about the closeness of a genealogical relationship, with the hypothesis that there is a genealogical relationship.

One can have data that makes it difficult to determine whether person X is most closely related to person Y, or to person Z, yet that same data can also unambigously support the conclusion that X is related to both Y or Z at the same time.

Your confusions seem without limit.

No, it’s a conclusion derived from comparing the predictions of hypotheses to data. The conclusion that mitochondria have bacterial ancestry is not undermined by the data being uncertain about exactly which bacterial taxa are most closely related to mitochondria. See the above analogy.

There is no person who accepts it without reason.

Appearances can be deceiving, but in any case irreducible complexity is an evolvable property. In fact it’s an expected outcome of the process of evolution. We have literally seen irreducibly complex systems performing adaptive biological functions evolve.

That’s nice. And it’s got little transport ships and trains carrying cargo around, and the ribosomes have a workers union and some times go on strike too?

Gee really? What a deeply deep insight of great depth.

That rules out supernatural creation by God then. Cool. Not that it’s relevant to the bacterial ancestry of mitochondria, or universal common descent more broadly.

Yes we are all in awe of the argument from “if you can quote someone else making the same claim you are then you win by default.”

Incidentally, a quote from someone making a claim is not any more a demonstration of it’s truth than if you had just claimed it yourself. And as already stated, irreducible complexity is an expected outcome of evolution. We have literally seen irreducibly complex systems performing adaptive biological functions evolve.

I’d ask what you think universal common descent is supposed to explain but I already know you have no idea. Regardless, while on the topic of speculations you can’t demonstrate, what is your proposed alternative? Literal magic worked in the ancient past that nobody was around to see? How does your head not explode from the hypocritical double standard?

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The very paper you cited shows exactly that. Any controversy involves exactly which proteobacteria are the closest relatives of mitochondria.

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Oh, really. Does the data demonstrate the one evolved from the other? No?
So, all they have done is offered speculations as to what they think occurred.

And, guess what? the data does not support the conclusion.

And your attempt to muddy genetics, doesn’t work.
What is observed is observed. What isn’t, isn’t.
There are known ancestors that pass their DNA on to their descendants.
And these are only known to do this within the different kind populations.

So, you are the one who is confused.
Because we know only that DNA works only within those of the same kind.
NOT passing from one kind barrier to the next.

It shows they are related, yes. That mitochondria evolved from bacteria.

No, they derive a phylogenetic tree from an alignment of lots of genetic data from multiple different species, using a phylogenetic algorithm. The resulting tree shows mitochondria nest within bacteria. The result could have turned out otherwise if the data supported another relationship, but that isn’t what happened. So that’s not “speculations”. You clearly have no idea what is going on.

Yes it does. Mitochondria unambiguously nest within bacteria in the phylogenetic tree. The data directly supports that conclusion. If the data did not support that conclusion, why does the phylogenetic tree imply it?

What isn’t working is your attempt to distract from the fact that you have no idea how any of this works, and that you can’t even read your own links with comprehension.

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And you are not realizing, or not wanting to admit that the implications as to what they are saying, is that the evidence that supposedly supports universal common descent, or Darwinian evolution is just not in existence.

Of course he does. I accept common descent. When it is applied to the limits to what is observed. Not what is imagined.

Within each of the different kinds there are various species of the same kind. These all share the same common ancestors that belong to the kinds of organisms in question. This is what is known among the evolutionists as micro evolution. And again, this is ancestors of one kind, passing along DNA information of that same kind to descendant that belong to that same kind.
This is what is observed. Not the unobserved crossing the kind boarders where more than one kind of lifeforms supposedly share a common ancestor. This would also be known as macro evolution.
But, the evolutionists love to offer as evidence what is supporting their micro evolution, which is nothing more than natural selection, and infer it as evidence to support their macro evolution, because they have never been able to demonstrate where any two kinds of lifeforms today, are sharing a common ancestor.
And your attempt to support Darwin’s lack of a scientific degree, shows you are missing the point.
You are the one who made the sad claim that YOU NEED TO BE AN EVOLUTIONARY BELIEVER TO UNDERSTAND EVOLUTION.
But, Darwin had nothing of the science that scientists of today have.
And so, your claims are baseless.
You don’t have to be accept evolution to know whether evolution is scientifically sound or not.
You can, for yourself, look at the data and know that it is not scientifically sound.
As can be shown by your lack of evidence to support your claims.

“150 Years Later, Fossils Still Don’t Help Darwin”
Source: 150 Years Later, Fossils Still Don't Help Darwin | The Institute for Creation Research

" Why would Eldredge and Gould propose such a model? Because they knew the data showed that potential transitional fossils are an extreme rarity. Gould and Eldredge said this many times over the years. Here are a few notorious quotes:

  • “The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. … In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and ‘fully formed.’” (Gould, 1977)
  • “The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution.” (Gould, 1980)
  • “All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are characteristically abrupt.” (Gould, 1982, p. 189)
  • “No wonder paleontologists shied away from evolution for so long. It never seemed to happen. Assiduous collecting up cliff faces yields … a rate too slow to account for all the prodigious change that has occurred in evolutionary history. When we do see the introduction of evolutionary novelty, it usually shows up with a bang, and often with no firm evidence that the fossils did not evolve elsewhere!” (Eldredge, 1995, p. 95)

Gould and Eldredge readily admitted the commonality of abrupt appearances of new species and the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record. And they admitted this pattern with respect to the fossil record as a whole — not simply when discussing “preservational bias” for or against certain groups or something like that. They recognized the problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution across the board. Their model therefore sought to explain why abrupt change was the dominant pattern in the fossil record. The logic goes like this: We have a problem (abrupt appearance and stasis), and punc eq, in their telling, provides a solution. This alone tells us a major reason they proposed their theory was to explain the lack of transitional forms.

But was their exact motive for proposing punctuated equilibrium ever stated explicitly?

Explicitly Stated Motives Behind Punc Eq

While writing this, I searched for a nice passage from Gould explaining the basics of punc eq, and so I turned to his book Punctuated Equilibrium, published posthumously in 2007. Here I found a discussion by Gould of his thinking “in proposing punctuated equilibrium”:

I recount this story at some length, as an introduction to punctuated equilibrium, both because Falconer and Darwin presage in such a striking manner, the main positions of supporters and opponents (respectively) of punctuated equilibrium in our generation, and because the tale itself illustrates the central fact of the fossil record so well — geologically abrupt origin and subsequent extended stasis of most species. Falconer, especially, illustrates the transition from too easy a false resolution under creationist premises, to recognizing a puzzle (and proposing some interesting solutions) within the new world of evolutionary explanation. Most importantly, this tale exemplifies what may be called the cardinal and dominant fact of the fossil record, something that professional paleontologists learned as soon as they developed tools for an adequate stratigraphic tracing of fossils through time: the great majority of species appear with geological abruptness in the fossil record and then persist in stasis until their extinction. Anatomy may fluctuate through time, but the last remnants of a species usually look pretty much like the first representatives. In proposing punctuated equilibrium, Eldredge and I did not discover, or even rediscover, this fundamental fact of the fossil record. Paleontologists have always recognized the longterm stability of most species, but we had become more than a bit ashamed by this strong and literal signal, for the dominant theory of our scientific culture told us to look for the opposite result of gradualism as the primary empirical expression of every biologist’s favorite subject — evolution itself.

Testimonials to Common Knowledge

The common knowledge of a profession often goes unrecorded in technical literature for two reasons: one need not preach commonplaces to the initiated; and one should not attempt to inform the uninitiated in publications they do not read. The longterm stasis, following a geologically abrupt origin, of most fossil morphospecies, has always been recognized by professional paleontologists.

GOULD, 2007, PP. 19-20, EMPHASES ADDED

As you can see, a main point that Gould cites as animating his theory is the “geologically abrupt origin” of species, followed by their stasis (i.e., lack of evolution).

But a much more direct statement of the motive for proposing punctuated equilibrium came in a 1977 paper by Gould and Eldredge in Paleobiology.

Two other classes of information were explained away or simply ignored: 1) morphological gaps in stratigraphic sequences — which might have suggested a punctuational view of evolution were attributed to imperfections of the fossil record; 2) evolutionary stasis, though recognized by all and used by stratigraphers in the practical work of our profession, was ignored by evolutionists as “no data.” Thus, Trueman rejoiced in Gryphaea(1922) but never mentioned the hundreds of Liassic species that show no temporal change. Rowe (1899) monographed Micraster but spoke not a word about its legion of static colleagues in the English chalk. In fact, the situation in paleontology is far worse than that confronting genetics a decade ago. At least the geneticists were frustrated by an absent technology: they knew what data they needed. Paleontologists allowed a potent, historical bias to direct their inquiry along a single path, though they could have accumulated other data at any time. What’s more, paleontologists accumulated hardly any good examples: the gradualistic idols that were established had feet of clay and rarely survived an intensive restudy. The tale of Gryphaea is dead in Trueman’s formulation (Hallam 1968; Gould 1972). Micraster will soon follow. (Rowe’s data identified three successive species, but he had no stratigraphic control for samples within taxa. Even if his gradualistic tale were true — which it is not — his own limited data could not have established it.) The collapse of classic after classic should have brought these gradualistic biases into question. The alienation of practical stratigraphy from an evolutionary science that required gradualism should have suggested trouble (see Eldredge and Gould, in press): always trust the practitioners.

This sorry situation led us to postulate our alternative model of punctuated equilibria (Eldredge 1971; Eldredge and Gould 1972). We wanted to expand the scope of relevant data by arguing that morphological breaks in the stratigraphic record may be real, and that stasis is data-that each case of stasis has as much meaning for evolutionary theory as each example of change.

GOULD AND ELDREDGE, 1977, EMPHASES ADDED

At the beginning of the second paragraph they say there is a “sorry situation” that “led” them to postulate punc eq. The “sorry situation” is described in their first paragraph: there were two facts about the fossil record that were “ignored by evolutionists”: (1) “morphological gaps” and (2) “stasis.” “What’s more,” they write, “paleontologists accumulated hardly any good examples” of gradual change in the fossil record. They call these rare instances “gradualistic idols.” In other words, the lack of fossil evidence for transitional forms “led” them to postulate punc eq."
Source: Punctuated Equilibrium and Lack of Transitions | Science and Culture Today

And so you see, those transitional fossils are myths.

A fact recognized and confessed by Patterson.

" > ‘I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?’

He went on to say:

‘Yet Gould [Stephen J. Gould—the now deceased professor of paleontology from Harvard University] and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils. … You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived.” I will lay it on the line—there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.’3 [Emphasis added]…" During a public lecture presented at New York City’s American Museum of Natural History on 5 November 1981, he dropped a bombshell among his peers that evening, who became very angry and emotional. Here are some extracts from what he said:

‘ … I’m speaking on two subjects, evolutionism and creationism, and I believe it’s true to say that I know nothing whatever about either … One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, well, let’s call it non-evolutionary, was last year I had a sudden realisation.

‘One morning I woke up … and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff [evolution] for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it.’—the late Dr Colin Patterson, formerly senior paleontologist, British Museum of Natural History

‘… One morning I woke up … and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff [evolution] for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it.’ He added:
‘That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long …"
Source: https://creation.com/that-quote-about-the-missing-transitional-fossils

And you have been mislead just as much.
Now, as far as Todd Wood is concerned, he is far from being the prime example for a scientist or a Bible believing Christian.

I can provide many more quotes from evolutionists and those who used to be evolutionists who have stated their concerns for the errors found in universal common descent.

Now I read the article and some about his article.
And I can’t find where he listed any evidence to support his claims in his blog.
And according to those articles about his articles, there is very little that he offers for evidence also.

And look here. You keep forgetting, YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT COMMON DESCENT EVOLUTION.
All you have are what has been claimed. There is no empirical evidence demonstrating that any two kinds of organisms ever shared a common ancestor.

You can make the claim that since an ape and humans have similar features this must mean they had a common ancestor, but, I will point out that apes and humans have had similar features for thousands of years.
And you can find apes and humans with similar features in the fossil record.
But, what you don’t find, is any of the descendants of any of the different kinds of animals, slowly becoming less like one kind of animal and more like a human or an ape.

What has always been observed is all apes give birth to apes. This means there were at least a male and female ape that had the first ever ape baby, ies.

And we have only observed humans giving birth to human babies.

And since all of the other kinds of lifeforms have been known to only reproduce those of their own kind, then exactly where are you going to get a contestant for your mythical common ancestor.

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, you fail to supply any evidence other than unsubstantiated claims that evolution is scientifically sound.

There is plenty in Scripture that supports speciation. God created them with the ability to be unique from others of their kind. This is speciation.
The reason for this was to help organisms to survive over time.
And you completely fail to recognize that at no time has it been observed that any two kinds of organisms have ever shared a common ancestor.

Boy, are you reading into a speculation. Those who are looking for something to use to make the claim one evolved from the other, are simply grasping at straws.

You have not proven that mitochondria evolved to be as it is. In fact, you have not even shown that a protocell evolved from chemicals.
You can not demonstrate that you can make a cell.
So, you can’t show that mitochondria could have evolved from anything.

Plus the article that attempts to make the claim mitochondria evolved, has been disputed by a different article.
To keep trying to accept it occurred, and not have any evidence other than someone said it could have been possible, is not sound science on your part.

Just what article have I supplied as evidence and was not supporting what I supplied them as evidence for.

You are trying to distract. Not I. You are making false claims. And smearing another’s credibility, without even providing evidence for this either.

So just an assertion, a complete none response to:

There is no justification for that interpretation. They reproduce after their kind, the same as others of their kind, and just as Adam named.

You are defending modern YEC fabrications, not scripture.

And scripture is even more clear that the Earth is flat, than it is young.

Those are just assertions. You have provided no explanation for why mitochondria should nest within bacteria in a phylogenetic tree, if they do not, in fact, derive from bacteria.

Why does the phylogenetic algorithm prefer that position of mitochondria, then?

Irrelevant to the bacterial ancestry of mitochondria. And in any case, your recurring demand for direct demonstrations is a stunning act of hypocricy considering you can’t directly demonstrate acts of divine creation anywhere in any way.

I do not claim to be able to make one, or indeed that anyone ever could. That’s your proposal. It’s you who should be working to show that cells can be created, not me.

Now the main difference here is that I don’t share your deeply confused (and hypocritical) stance that the only way to know that something occurred is by direct demonstration. As explained previously, we can infer how past events occurred by comparing the predictions of hypotheses to data. The craters on the moon really are craters, despite nobody being around to see it when they formed.

You seem very confused about what is needed to show the bacterial ancestry of mitochondria. The evolution of mitochondria from bacterial ancestors is simply not relevant to the de novo creation of a cellular lifeform, nor to some transition from prebiotic chemistry to protocellular life.

You seem disconcertingly bad at reading for comprehension. None of the articles discussed on the phylogenetic placement of mitochondria within the bacterial clade, dispute that mitochondria have bacterial ancestry. They all agree on that. They just disagree on which bacteria they are most closely related to. You are aware, I hope, that there a many different species of bacteria?

It is like they are trying to determine which species of primate humans are most closely related to, with one paper arguing we are most closely related to gorillas, and another arguing we are most closely related to chimpanzee. Such an argument does not mean the authors are disputing that humans are primates.

A phylogenetic tree isn’t “someone said it”, and besides, the bacterial ancestry of mitochondria go well beyond phylogenetics alone. The process of endosymbiosis by close relatives of mitochondria has been directly observed.

What a strange coincidence. A member of the alphaproteobacterial clade, Wolbachia, which is a species of bacteria that can infect eukaryotic cells and live inside them like mitochondria do, still lives today.

The claim that the bacterial ancestry of mitochondria was questioned.

Mitochondria does not nest within alphaproteobacteria =/= Mitochondria do not nest within bacteria.

Mmm, no.

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Rare still exists. Diamonds are extremely rare, but they still exist. Transitional fossils are extremely rare, but they still exist.

Gould, Eldredge, Patterson and so on all thought transitional fossils exist.

I quote Gould again and emplore you to read with comprehension:

Gould: (…)There is another sense of gaps in the record claiming, in other words, there are not transitional whatsoever in the fossil record. It’s, in fact, patently false.

Indeed, on page 643, if you consult the chart, we do display an evolutionary trend here on the right, and evolutionary trends are very common in the fossil record. Punctuate equilibrium does not propose to deny it. By evolutionary trends, we mean the existence of intermediate forms, structurally intermediate forms between ancestors in the sense that we don’t have every single set, and we find transitional forms like that very abundant in the fossil record.

But the theory of punctuated equilibrium says that you shouldn’t expect to find all interceptable intermediate degrees. It’s not like rolling a ball up an inclined plane, it’s rather, a trend is more like climbing a staircase, where each step would be geologically abrupt. In that sense that are many transitional forms in the fossil record.

I might also state that when the geological evidence is unusually good, that we can even see what’s happening within one of these punctuations.

Later:

Q Professor Gould, you have just talked about a transitional form, Archaeopteryx. Could you give an example of an entire transitional sequence in the fossil record?

A Yes. A very good example is that provided by our own group, the mammals.
Q Would it assist you in your testimony to refer to an exhibit?
A Yes. I have a series of skulls illustrating the most important aspect of this transition.

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No, Behe accepts universal common descent. i,e. that every single organism on earth has descended from a single common ancestor, including human beings. Just as Darwin and all subsequent evolutionists have accepted it.

Behe: “Common descent is true” (re: Texas TEKS science standards on evolution) « Tony’s curricublog (wordpress.com)

This is odd. It seems you are as ignorant regarding the beliefs of your fellow creationists as you are of evolution.

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I want to return to this point. Could you explain, in your own words, why scientists would think a phylogenetic tree is evidence for the bacterial ancestry of mitochondria? You call it “a speculation”, but scientists disagree that it’s just a speculation. How does the logic of phylogenetic inference work? Can you state that in your own words?

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I have to defend nothing from the Scripture. It is God’s Word. To contradict God’s Word is to take a stand against God. And God defends His Word. All of the time.
But, the Bible says according to or after their kind.
"
And God created great whales and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind; and God saw that it was good."

" God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind; and God saw that it was good and He affirmed and sustained it." Genesis 1:21

You of course wanted ot have your “GOTCHA” moment. Sorry for raining on your parade.
But, it is such a small thing and I guess, you can’t win any big battles, so, you thought, you’d get one in at least, right?

But, you as all evolutionists, run away from the subject at hand.
Your evidence to support universal common descent.
Now, aside from those misrepresented iconic explamples of evolution, liike the “Land animal to whale” myth, or the “dinosaur to bird” myth or that really really stoned out of your mind, "ape to man " myth, where are your modern day examples that you can supply to support those myths of the past, were not myths?

You are asking, perhaps, for a major evolutionary transition of the same magnitude as land animals to whales or dinosaurs to birds to happen while you wait? Or perhaps you want to see a crocodile egg hatch into a duck? You must realize that any of those things would not be evidence of evolution and would strongly contradict evolutionary theory. You demand impossible, not to say insane, evidence yet reject the good evidence you’ve been offered.

Let me repeat: the best evidence for common descent is the nested hierarchy of the data, notably the DNA and protein sequence data, as well as the biotic succession of the fossil record. Even your new buddy Gunter Bechly agrees with that.

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But you are not God. And you still have not answered…

The rest of your post says nothing about speciation. That is a YEC invention.

Cool. Are you in contact? Tell him to come here and talk, you’re not doing a good job. I’d be happy to discuss evolution with God instead of hordes of his inept sycophants. Not that you’re one of those. Ooobviously!

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There is no perhaps about it. The evolutionist claim that after that protocell formed it mutated, it evolved and one of its evolutionary events included some mythical land animal to whales. Another was their mythical dinosaur to bird myth. And one of their most preposterous mythical tales is there ape like creature to man.

These and I’m sure there are other less noised abroad, are all localized during a time, supposedly when man did not exist, or at the very least had not existed as man is today, but they claim these occurred, and evidence for these examples of universal common descent can be found in the fossil record.
But, as previously stated, what supposedly occurred in the past, THE UNOBSERVED past, can only be offered as an interpretation that has no real time empirical evidence available to be presented.
So, the evolutionists have looked at the remains of the long ago occurrences, and they claim UNIVERSAL COMMON DESCENDANTS, is what caused the formations of the now fossilized organisms, and that they see, evolutionary events had caused the organisms now dead and fossilized to end up in the shapes and forms which we see them today.
But, remember, supposedly there were no humans around to leave any messages. No videos or pictures as to what actually occurred.
So, truly they are at liberty to formulate what ever they wish, as an explanation and there is no one who can honestly testify that the way they have interpreted the remains of the past are completely incorrect.

But, this cuts both ways. Because there is no one to support what they claim.

So, what do we have in the present to break the stalemate?
And we have how organisms are progressing today. How our ancestors had observed life forming in the past.
And, this then testifies against universal common descent. Because for as long as we can remember there have always been different kinds of lifeforms.
And we have always observed, that whenever a male and female of a kind of organism mated, the end result of the mating, has always been observed to be a descendant that was classified as the same kind of organism as the two that mated it into existence.

This is what is and has been observed. It has been the pattern that no one has ever observed to have failed.

Science is all about observation. And when a pattern has been observed, it is as sound as science as science can be.
And when an observed pattern has not failed, then this is enough for scientists to declare that observed pattern A LAW.

Which is how scientists decided to declare the never failed pattern of “LIFE COMES FROM LIFE” as the law of Biogenesis.

Of course it wouldn’t. Because universal common descent has not evidence.
The only reason why you say it wouldn’t be evidence is because you thinking, if not whispering, that it occurred over millions and millions of years.
But, it isn’t also true, that you, nor anyone else who says that evolution occurs over hundreds of millions of years with even greater number of generations of a single population to finally see a dinosaur lay an egg with a baby bird. For a land animal to give birth to an amphibious animal that went on to give birth to a baby whale, or that some ape like creature over an untold number of years to give birth to the first human baby.
That is not what you are saying but, you know very well, THAT IS THE UNDERSTANDING.
And understanding that is not supported with any kind of empirical evidence.

I hold science to be the same science for any and all theories. And when evolutionists have failed to supply their evidence that dinosaurs could lay eggs from which birds hatch, when they are at a loss to supply any kind of empirical evidence that supports their claim that a land animal could have given birth to the first ever land animal. Or when they are left dumbfounded due to their inability to supply the evidence supporting their claim that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, then I tell you there is no science that supports their claims.
And if doesn’t support the past, this is the only thing that universal common descent has going for it in the present.
Because in the present all they can claim is, IT TAKES HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS TO OCCUR".
And so the appeal to the distant future to supply the evidence for the present. Just as they have been appealing to the distant past, to support their claims of universal common descent in the present.
Instead each time anyone has ever observed a baby born to any of the different kinds of lifeforms that baby although not identical to either parents, has always been easily observed to be the same kind of lifeform, as the two that mated it into existence.

I ask myself why you haven’t supplied any quotes demonstrating him saying what you say.
So, now I’ll ask you where is your source to support this
Because I’ve supplied plenty of evidence with Bechly contradicting the fossil evidence for universal common descent. He is even saying the evidence does not favor universal common descent.

And this is him saying what he believes.

Now what say you.

Gould has already demonstrated what he thought of the fossil record transitional fossils.
Which is why he and Eldredge developed the offshoot, PE. Both he and Eldredge submitted PE as an explanation as to why they were not finding the transitional fossils as predicted by Darwin.
And Patterson clearly tells us that he also found little supporting transitional fossils to alleviate the worries of the evolutionists about there not being transitional fossils.

" > ‘I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?’

He went on to say:

‘Yet Gould [Stephen J. Gould—the now deceased professor of paleontology from Harvard University] and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils. … You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived.” I will lay it on the line—there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.’3 [Emphasis added].
Source: https://creation.com/that-quote-about-the-missing-transitional-fossils#:~:text=Note%20what%20Patterson%20said%20in,with%20creationists%2C%20cryptic%20or%20overt.

He even confesses that he had realized that he had been duped by what he was told to be evidence for evolution but found out otherwise. …

One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, well, let’s call it non-evolutionary, was last year I had a sudden realisation.

‘One morning I woke up … and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff [evolution] for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it.’—the late Dr Colin Patterson, formerly senior paleontologist, British Museum of Natural History

‘… One morning I woke up … and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff [evolution] for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it.’ He added:
‘That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long.
Source: https://creation.com/that-quote-about-the-missing-transitional-fossils#:~:text=Note%20what%20Patterson%20said%20in,with%20creationists%2C%20cryptic%20or%20overt.

Now, I ask you, is this enough for you to begin to reign in your false understanding? Is it not causing you to wonder as did Patterson, whether or not they were teaching the truth?
Because I can provide quote after quote where scientists have stated the exact opposite of support for evolution.

Because Patterson set out to ask others of his peers as to what they have found in support of evolution. And guess what he was told.
" I’ve tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people: “Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that you think is true?” I tried that question on the geology staff in the Field Museum of Natural History, and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago … and all I got there was silence for a long time, and then eventually one person said: “Yes, I do know one thing. It ought not to be taught in high school.” .’6"
Source: https://creation.com/that-quote-about-the-missing-transitional-fossils#:~:text=Note%20what%20Patterson%20said%20in,with%20creationists%2C%20cryptic%20or%20overt.

Now, again. WHAT SAY YOU!!!
Are you honest enough to admit that you need to delve more into this evidence you have been told supports universal common descent?

Yes. That there are lots of them, and that they demonstrate gradual evolutionary change.

It’s why he said, for example:
“… In that sense that are many transitional forms in the fossil record.”
and
“… we find transitional forms like that very abundant in the fossil record.”
See my previous post for the context of these statements.

Clearly he thought there were transitional forms. He even thought we had an entire sequence in the fossil record of mammals.

Q Professor Gould, you have just talked about a transitional form, Archaeopteryx. Could you give an example of an entire transitional sequence in the fossil record?

A Yes. A very good example is that provided by our own group, the mammals.
Q Would it assist you in your testimony to refer to an exhibit?
A Yes. I have a series of skulls illustrating the most important aspect of this transition.

So there are transitional forms, Gould thought there were transitional forms, that they demonstrate gradual evolutionary change, and in the case of the evolution of mammals he thought we had an entire transitional sequence of fossils.

These quotes aren’t going to go away.

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That rules out divine creation then. Life must be infinitely old.

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