Welcome to Terrell Clemmons: Questions on Methodological Naturalism

I think I discussed that already in an earlier topic (probably the introduction thread that someone started for me). But I’m not sure where that is at the moment. In any case, it would be off-topic for this thread.

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Wouldn’t you expect co-instants if God didn’t exist?

Not meaniful sets and series, and as @terrellclemmons said earlier, with function.

Why not? Do you think no one would win the lottery if God didn’t exist?

That would be one event.

It would be thousands of events, actually. It would be all of the events that led that person to the store at that moment, at just the right moment to get the right lottery numbers at exactly that moment.

They would not be disparate events. They would all be related.

They would all be coincidental events that led a person to win the lottery, and I don’t see why they would require a deity. Just by winning the lottery there would necessarily be a long list of coincidental events that were required for that one person to win the lottery.

But they would all be connected to and resulting in the one, singular event.

Should I enumerate all the independent co-instants involved in the kidney account, none of which had any causal bearing on the other?

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Exactly. In any universe with an arrow of time there are necessarily going to be extremely improbable coincidences that lead to outcomes. I don’t see why there has to be a deity guiding the universe in order for these coincidences to happen.

Couldn’t the same be said of every event at any given moment?

What is an example good philosophy in your opinion? You’ve given the example of CS Lewis. What makes his philosophy good versus the bad philosophy he thought needed answers?

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Exactly not. Of course events lead to outcomes, but we are talking about meaningful unrelated disparate events. I don’t know how to articulate this well enough (some help, other Christians that know what I’m talking about? :slightly_smiling_face:). God is personal and the events are infused with meaning recognizable to the individual. It’s not just a one-time, “Huh. That’s interesting.” or “Woo hoo! I won some money!”

Wow, that’s a profound question and an excellent one. For me, it would require some Christian theology and apologetics to answer with any amount of respect that it warrants.

The only way I could answer it in short form would be to quote a Bible verse, which I’m not inclined to do here. It’s not that I don’t want to answer it, but I’d rather not answer now (mostly because of the time factor) or here (mostly because this is a science forum, and not the best environment for answering a “big” question with an answer that would probably not go over well with avowed atheists or effective philosophical naturalists.

You have adopted the name “Philosurfer” (cute, I think). If you want to expand on how you would answer your own question, I’d be willing to hear. I’m not asking you to answer it, just tossing that out if you’re inclined to.

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The timing of the molecular beginning of my cancer did not “result in” the outcome of the busy signal. Yes, the busy signal did result in my picking up the devotional, but it was totally unrelated to the contents, the contents of which “just happened” to be precisely relevant to the purpose of the phone call. “It just happened” that there was a busy signal – I’m surmising that the small clinic only had two phone lines, based on my experience – and “it just happened” that there was an appointment cancelation, first thing on a Monday morning. I’m guessing, not unreasonably, and since I know that the clinic does indeed have a voice menu system from others of my phone calls, “it just happened” that one of the calls resulting in the busy signal was that very appointment cancelation. And of course, that is all directly related to my cough relief on Thanksgiving Eve.

That’s what I am talking about as well.

I fully agree that it is us who infuse meaning into events. I don’t see what that has to do with events needing guidance since we humans can easily assign meaning to random events.

Sometimes the meanings are way too overt and blatent than to be merely a person’s assignations or pareidolia. I hope some happen to you.

They were only given meaning later on, and you apparently didn’t think those events were meaningful at the time.

I didn’t think the devotional was meaningful at the time?! And I essentially immediately understood the dual significance of the busy signal!

If you had not had cancer, would you have assigned any significance to those events?

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