100cm. Yeah right. This is right down the road from me. Then one in Lebanon is like 27 ft long.
Thus, by the numbers @scd provided, that would be be about 823 centimeters, suggesting some 82,300 years.
Yes, even when I was still within the Young Earth Creationist community, it used to drive me nuts when speakers would use the human population growth rate argument. Very frustrating.
I hear that football helmets have been improved recently, in case you have obliterated all of your house’s drywall and need to move on to something more substantial.
It gets better. You can use C-14 dating and thorium-230 to determine a cross-checked stalactite age into the ice age. You may also be able to count annual layers, depending.
If YEC had good arguments, they would not have to resort to such desperately bad ones which just invite for them more headaches.
No problem.
on the flood story. ALL evidence of geomophology and geology demonstrates that it was from sudden quick actions that we see what we see. The great sedimentary rock covering almost all of earth on the dry land is proof of having it put their uniquely.
i mean its impossible it was put there by any other way. THEN with this is fossils of biology that uniquely could only of been put that way.
The evidence for the flood is the geology/geomorphology.
Actually the evidence for its growth is not its modern rate. Even if true it would just be a guess.
Since its unlikely, on a probability curve, that like results come from different mechanisms THEN one only needs to find a modern observable mechanism that creates these types of things.
There is a modern one about salt that instantly creates these formations, in hours etc, and so makes any long timelines or the small actions now vERY unlikely to be the origin.
YET it is a cool point one would not find , even by these rates, these things older trhen 6000 years.
first: are these stalactites represent the majority of stalactites in that cave or just the minority? if you will take a look at random pics of stalactites caves you will notice that most of them are indeed no longer than 100 cm:
indeed. the upper limit of stalactite growth is about 30 cm per 100 years. so we can predict that the longest stalactite should be about 15 meter long for 5,000 years old stalactite .
What in the world makes you think existing stalactites began forming the same the Earth formed?
If you found a 500 year old tree would that make the Earth be 500 years old? Sheesh.
5,000 years is already earlier than the flood in the orthodox YEC chronology. The usual YEC pushes back pretty hard against stretching out the dates from adding up the genealogies.
As pointed out earlier, to have a stalactite you need a cave. To have a cave, you need a limestone type rock. Limestone can be found in strata of several kilometers of depth, this is formed substantially by the slow but persistent accumulation of microscopic sea life, accumulated on an ocean basin, subducted by tectonic processes, subject to heat and pressure, and heaved to dry land. Each step here requires vastly more time that allowed under YEC, but this is just the start. Once you have your solid terrestrial limestone rock, then can water begin the process of carving out a network of caverns. That done, now at last stalactites can begin to form. Never mind what is published by mainstream science or creationist articles for a moment. Sit back, close your eyes, and just try to imagine all that happening in the time frame extending only back to what is historically considered to be the old kingdom of Egypt. It does violence to common sense.
Add to that, C-14 dating and thorium-230 dating independently yield dates which are in agreement, and support ages for stalactites much greater than the YEC chronology.
This stalactite argument is also ignoring the time required for the cave itself to form, which can be an incredibly slow process. It’s also ignoring the fact that when we radiometrically date old stalactites we find that their record of things like local temperature (according to oxygen isotopes) match completely independent temperature indicators elsewhere, consistent with tens of thousands of years of glacial and interglacial periods. There is an overwhelming consensus of evidence for the old age of stalactites and the rest of the earth,
Still waiting for that positive evidence, any positive evidence, for the YEC position.
indeed. but think about that: even if it takes say few million years to form that cave then why most stalactites point to a young age? why there are no many caves that their stalactites point to old earth if these caves are indeed so old?
Ancient crystal growths in caves reveal seas rose 16 meters in a warmer world
Mineral “bathtub rings” deposited inside the limestone Artà Caves on the Balearic island of Mallorca show how high seas rose during the Pliocene Epoch — a time when Earth was about as warm as it’s expected to get by 2100. Those mineral deposits suggest the planet’s seas were around 16 meters higher on average than they are today, researchers report August 30 in Nature .
Conditions during the Pliocene, 5.33 million to 2.58 million years ago, may offer the best example of what a human-addled climate will eventually look like ( SN: 11/28/17 ). In the past, paleoclimatologists mainly used two approaches in reconstructing Pliocene sea level changes. One links ratios of two types of oxygen, or isotopes, in fossilized sea creatures to a global record of oxygen ratios and ice sheet cycles. The other uses the ages of ancient coral reefs to estimate ancient sea levels.
For the new study, researchers searched caves for evidence of past sea level change ( SN: 4/15/13 ). “Caves are a very protected environment,” says study coauthor Oana-Alexandra Dumitru, a geochemist at the University of South Florida in Tampa who began collaborating with Mallorcan researchers as a graduate student. “We don’t worry about erosion and other weathering after deposition as much as you would about terrestrial or other records.”
Giant rock formations inside Spain’s Artà Caves reveal how high seas once rose. Bulbous formations grew onto stalactites where brackish water lapped at the rock 4.39 million years ago.
how is this relevant to the fact that most stalactites are about less than meter long?
References please. Everything I read has stated the growth rates are a lot slower than the ones you put forward. So please provide sources
It refutes the silly claim 1m long stalactites are evidence the Earth is only 6000 years old.
Tell me, is 4.39 million years ago younger than or older than 6000 years ago?
I was unaware this is a common YEC argument:
I had never heard it before.
Here is a prime exhibit of what I mean when I say that if YEC had any good arguments, they would not have to resort to such bad ones.
How is the length of stalactites relevant to the age of the earth?