Keith,
Whenever we read any literature, we need to understand the genre and purpose. The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It is history, poetry, epistles, etc. Christian’s believe God inspired the authors. However no one believes the human authors knew modern science the way we did. So when we read the Bible, we must take the text in its context.
For example, a biologist writing a letter to his 6 year old niece on her birthday will not produce material worthy of close scientific scrutiny. Its not because of the authors ignorance, but rather the purpose of the writing.
That’s why I pointed out that any examination of Christianity must start with Jesus Christ. Have you had an experience of Jesus when you were a Christian?
Hey Keith, Patrick here. When did you realize that the Bible was complete bs?
Hey Keith, Patrick here: Have you ever taken mind expanding drugs? Have you ever had hallucinations where you thought someone in your head was talking to you? Have you ever talked to yourself? How about argue with yourself? Which you won?
I am joking around with Keith. He will think my questions are really funny - atheist to atheist humor in response to "have you ever found Jesus? from Ashwin.
Hi Patrick,
Since you replied to me, I am assuming you are talking to me.
You do realise that your conclusions are based on a world view which involves strictly materialist assumptions about the nature of the world right?
If you wish to have a meaningful conversation with a theist, I suggest you start with the philosophical/scientific rationale for this world view.
He does. It is a little complex to explain the situation here in the US (your in India, right?). There is a bit of a cultural gap playing out in this exchange I think.
Why, I am pretty happy with life at the present moment. My life is going pretty well. My family is doing well. We are all healthy. What more can I expect of this world?
Yes, I get that your world view works for you. However, the way we view the world is based on how we answer fundamental questions. For example, what is conciousness… i.e who or what am I. Is the sense of being me reducible to mere material interactions.
A different answer leads to a different world view.
You mentioned that you don’t expect more of the world… on what basis do you expect anything of the world. In your view does the world care… or desire to take care of you and your family?
Yes I am from India.
No I don’t think the gap is cultural in the sense of geography or nationality… its more of what is a legitimate way to view the world/reality…
More of an approach issue…
That’s why I pointed out that any examination of Christianity must start with Jesus Christ. Have you had an experience of Jesus when you were a Christian?
Yes, and more than one. Or more precisely, I had experiences that I took to be experiences of Jesus – just as millions of religious believers have had experiences that they took to be confirmations of their particular religious belief systems. Never mind that those belief systems are mutually contradictory.
I was young and didn’t know any better. Now I realize that such experiences do not confirm the correctness of one’s religious beliefs.
I’d invite your thoughts on this: Lewis’ paper is quite a bit longer, but here’s a snapshot about finding God in space (thus, science) @keiths@Patrick. I see some problems with this, but it makes me think. Contrast that, though, with the Bible’s honesty ("Psalm 10, Where are you, God?), Ecclesiastes and Job. God knows we are made of dust, and don’t understand or grasp everything. Thanks
" The Russians, I am told, report that they have not found God in outer space. On the other hand, a good many people in many different times and countries claim to have found God, or been found by God, here on earth. The conclusion some want us to draw from these data is that God does not exist. As a corollary, those who think they have met Him on earth were suffering from a delusion. But other conclusions might be drawn.
(1) We have not yet gone far enough in space. There had been ships on the Atlantic for a good time before America was discovered.
(2) God does exist but is locally confined to this planet.
(3) The Russians did find God in space without knowing it because they lacked the requisite apparatus for detecting Him.
(4) God does exist but is not an object either located in a particular part of space nor diffused, as we once thought “ether” was, throughout space.
The first two conclusions do not interest me. The sort of religion for which they could be a defense would be a religion for savages: the belief in a local deity who can be contained in a particular temple, island, or grove. That, in fact, seems to be the sort of religion about which the Russians—or some Russians, and a good many people in the West—are being irreligious. It is not in the least disquieting that no astronauts have discovered a god of that sort. The really disquieting thing would be if they had.
The third and fourth conclusions are the ones for my money….
Space travel really has nothing to do with the matter. To some, God is discoverable everywhere; to others, nowhere. Those who do not find Him on earth are unlikely to find Him in space. (Hang it all, we’re in space already; every year we go a huge circular tour in space.) But send a saint up in a spaceship and he’ll find God in space as he found God on earth. Much depends on the seeing eye."
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