Biblical Philistines—archenemies of ancient Israelites—hailed from Europe,

What I meant was, of course he’s biased. We all are, and have confirmation biases in accord with our worldviews. Not all biases are wrong, though, and in general, a Christian one is closer to the overall scope of reality than a non-Christian one (but my bias made me say that :slightly_smiling_face:). That’s also why, in an academic and sociologic sense of the word, atheism is a religion.*

2 Likes

You’re right. I should have said, “Nothing more to me

3 Likes

And archaeology is a science.

I can appreciate though, why an atheist wouldn’t see more, it does seem at times like a ancient story written by ancient people. If I was in charge I would maybe have done it differently, but I’m not God so…

I think archeology is fascinating and I think it can only help us understand the Bible more, so I say the more the merrier.

As always, I think scientists have to be careful to not speak authoritatively beyond what the science actually says, either by distinguishing clearly between what they say is science and interpretation or by just leaving it at the science and letting others interpret.

2 Likes

Archaeology, a science, is and has to be neutral on the question of what ancient writings were “inspired by God” as there is no way for Archaeological Science to address this question. But one thing archaeology science can determine is that the writings seem to fit or not fit with the knowledge, technology, culture, and language of the people of that time and region of the world.

1 Like

Do I have too? I prefer thinking of @nlents and @deuteroKJ.

1 Like

Right, but as @DarrenG pointed out so well in Post 25, we need to be careful, on both sides, to not assume the Bible is saying things it’s not. I don’t know when exactly a lot of the stuff in the old testament happened, and I additionally don’t know when it was recorded. That’s where archeology can help. But if the first time we C-14 date something older than 4004 BC or find differences between Kings and Chronicles we say “ah hah, the Bible is lying!” we’re really not doing science anymore. Granted, the problems with this that I see are almost always in popular press or science journalism and not the scientific literature itself. But when we “translate” primary literature to popular-level reading I think we really need to be careful.

3 Likes

Maybe you didn’t follow the asterisked link, or understand that I specified in an academic and sociologic sense.

I am with Jordan on this one. I don’t (see) why any piece of literature can’t be both mytho-historical and God-breathed at the same time. (Edit to fix typo)

2 Likes

You also don’t know if a lot of the stuff in the old testament did happen. Very little evidence of any of the stories in the old testament actually happening.

What is in an academic and sociologic sense?

Sure the Star Wars trilogy can be both mytho-historical and God-breathed at the same time. Same with the Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter.

This is old hat. always it was said men were inmspired by gods spirit to accurately write things down in a tiny number of books. otherwise mankind would say God never told them anything about our origins and problems.They are self consistent. They are not myths. tHats just a disbiever’s accusation.
The bible is unique as the only book that strives to explain origins of everything including death. No other ancients talked about death, language, origin of nations/tribes etc, the universe, or anything. nobody becaise no people would think to do so and would have no ideas.

Certainly outside of archeological/historical/genetic evidence there isn’t much we can say definitively. It is an ancient document after all, so it’s not surprising that much, if not most of it, will be outside of science’s “eye”.

Overall, to me personally, it seems like the Bible really does reflect the long history of God’s interaction with the people of Israel, really is a faithful record of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, and really does reveal the beginnings of the followers of Christ trying to live out the faith. Looking at the whole, I feel quite confident that the Bible has everything God intended for me to have. The part that is scientifically addressable becomes data points for us to gauge our interpretations and adjust our theology. That’s fine.

3 Likes

That means it’s somewhat esoteric and technical and not the everyday use of the word. I would have thought that would have been clear if you had followed and read the link.

Exactly. Of course I’m not aware that star wars or Harry Potter claim to be mytho-historical or God-breathed, but I agree in principle.

Take away mytho-historical and God-breathed, as we should with those examples, then what is the principle left to agree with? :slightly_smiling_face:

Its a little disappointing that I can’t disagree with you without being labelled as a “disbiever” But I can console myself that I am in good company.

4 Likes

The principle that the presence (or absence) of divine inspiration can be independent of literary genre? Or did I misunderstand the point Patrick was making?

2 Likes

32 posts were split to a new topic: Faith, Belief, and Reason