Catholic Cardinal Blames Sex Scandals on “Moral Depravity” of Gay People and Atheists

1 Like

Just for the record, he is wrong. I hope everyone knows this.


Because it is often confused by non-Catholics that the views of a Cardinal (or even Pope) is representative of the Catholic Church: this is not the view of the Catholic Church.


Is this like the views of President Trump are not the official position of the US Government? At some point, somebody has to take responsibility for the Catholic Church. Is it the Pope? It doesn’t seem like anyone is stepping up and fixing the problems within the Catholic Church.

1 Like

@Patrick, everyone wants to see exactly what you are calling for here. When children are systematically abused for decades, there must be an account. If only they had been concerned about children more than protecting adults…

We all want an account in this world, right now. Even then, it can never be made right. Many of the perpetrators are dead. It is moments like this that Christians remember that justice can come in both this life, and also in the next. You are concerned about hell, but I wonder if you think those who knowingly, repeatedly and unrepentantly abused children deserve to be in hell? Maybe. I do not know, and I am glad I follow a God of both justice and mercy. May God have mercy on their souls.


It is similar.

I told you,


There are several initiatives from within the Church and without. Whether it is the most effective way to proceed is not something that I have enough expertise to answer.

I am not concerned about the next life, just this one. It is time for the Catholic Church to give the victims and their families, billions of dollars for being abused. Start by agreeing to lawsuit settlements instead of fighting each case in court. Start by believing the victims. So far the Catholic Church has settled cases for $3 Billion dollars. It is estimated that there is over a $100 Billion in damages due victims worldwide. If this bankrupts the Catholic Church so be it.

I would like to hear from Catholics here. Should the church settle these lawsuits and pay out billions to victims even if it does bankrupt the Catholic Church?


First of, this belies a misunderstanding of how the Catholic Church is organized. Different dioceses (e.g. the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, the Diocese of Madison) and orders (e.g. the Dominicans, the Jesuits) exist as separate entities. Indeed, dioceses have filed for bankruptcy before. This does not mean that other dioceses are also bankrupt.

If these American dioceses where these abuses happen have to pay to their bankruptcy, let it be. If the Vatican (which itself constitutes multiple entities) has to pay for their involvement in the cover ups, let them pay. But do not punish e.g. the Chinese dioceses who are prosecuted and driven underground by the government - they have no hand in this.


And what about the institutionalized cover up by the Bishops, Cardinals, and past and present Popes? Who should pay for that? The shuffling of known sex offenders to other parishes? The keeping of secret files and refusing to hand over these files to grand juries? Note that this is a worldwide problem. The Catholic Church has institutionalized all of this for centuries. It is in South America. Asia, Europe, Africa and Austrialia.

Look at the numbers and scale them - In just 6 dioceses in Pennsylvania, over 1000 abused children by over 300 priests over a period of 70 years. Expanding to the whole state, the whole country and then move into Europe, South America, Africa, Asia, and Australia. Only the Catholic Church can have a problem this massive.

I am not an expert in laws, but I have already told you my opinion:

Edit: okay, you edited your post so I will have to edit my respond:

Each diocese will have to be responsible for their own sins. Do not punish innocent dioceses. I don’t see why this is a controversial stance.

But yet you still are a member.

We hashed this out many times before. It is logically incoherent to leave the Catholic Church because of these scandals.


It is institutionalized criminality and violations of human rights on a global scale. How about taking these cases to The Hague and charging the Catholic Church with heinous crimes against humanity?

Again, there is no such legal entity as the Catholic Church which you can sue. You can sue individual dioceses or orders that is guilty.

Why is the Catholic Church above the law of mankind? If a corporation had done this, they would be bankrupted and its officials would be sent to jail. If a government did this, the whole world would be outraged and seek sanctions against this government violating human rights. How about we seize all the assets of the Catholic Church, pay all the victims and their families billions of dollars and put in jail all those responsible for abuse and the coverup of abuse? What do you think?

Err… have you been reading what I wrote? The Church is not above the law of mankind. You can sue individual dioceses or orders. The issue is that the Church does not exist as a singular entity.

The only way to sue the entire Catholic Church is to sue every single diocese and orders. This is analogous to suing all Germans for the Nazi war crimes.

If you refuse to read what I have been writing, and further try to deflect the conversation with non-sequiturs such as this:

I don’t know if we should continue this conversation.

I am reading your writings and it shows a lack of understanding of what took place. It is institutionalized depravity for centuries. The entire structure of the Catholic Church is corrupt. And has been for centuries.

Suing a dioceses makes no sense. Take a look at a church in Hawaii that just declared bankrupcy. Does this get at the problem? I say it doesn’t

Would suing all the dioceses make sense? This only makes sense if every single diocese is guilty, which you seem to think so. If this is so, your only recourse is suing every single dioceses and orders, as I keep saying, there just does not exist a single legal entity encompassing the entire Catholic Church.

Every single diocese is guilty, worldwide, for centuries. On every continent in every country. worldwide. for centuries.

Well if you think this way, then there is nothing stopping you to suing every single one in court. Their guilt can then be proven in court.

Note that this is a completely mundane legal matter. I have not said anything on the order of:

I honestly have no idea where you get that from the things I wrote, which is why I thought you did not even read what I wrote.