Anybody here know how we got broccoli?
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You know right? Artificial selection in VERY recent history. Same plant that gave us broccoli, also gave us cabbage (all types), brussels sprouts, kale, kohlrabi, and collard greens.
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Yes, Artificial Selection is a powerful example of what selected mutations can do through common decent. Look at all the breeds of Dogs where mutations are selected for. All are common ancestor of wolves going back tens of thousands of years.
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Hybridisation would be the more accurate term…
Ya it’s impressive what intelligent agency can achieve with selective breeding…
Nowhere near as impressive as getting a whale from a land dwelling mammal though… Can’t trump that!
What? Not sure that I follow. Are you saying that the development of domesticated dogs involved wolf-dog hybrids?
Yes, we can agree on that. But why are you confusing hydridisation with artificial selection? When someone crosses a Labrador retriever with a pit bull, nobody calls the resulting dog a “hybrid.”
Yes, that example of evolutionary development is not a product of hybridization.
Of course, in the case of the development of the many varieties of Brassica oleracea, people exploited and “amplified” (i.e., artificial selection) some of the minor differences in the natural occurring varieties (which had developed in some areas due to natural selection.) So whether the selective forces involved people (artificial selection) or grazing animals and differences in environmental conditions (natural selection), fascinating and impressive variety was the result.
I’ve also found it interesting that particularly beautiful varieties (such as those with brightly colored leaves) got cultivated purely for their ornamental value—and their tolerance of very cold weather when other plants of the garden weren’t flowering. I used to live in an area where nursery centers sold a lot of brightly colored cabbage plants at a time in the very early spring when it was still too cold for selling anything but trees and bushes.
POSTSCRIPT: There’s something especially comical about a photo of a piece of broccoli next to Kent Hovind. I can’t quite explain it. But it’s just plain funny.
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For those of us who are too lazy to read all of this, does Hovind now have a conspiracy theory about broccoli?
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Don’t remember exactly… but since the subject is broccoli, I guess I was talking about plants… don’t see any mention of dogs anywhere… where did you get that?
Patrick mentioned dog breeds and wolves—and your response to him thereby sounded like you were referring dogs and wolves. So, perhaps I misunderstood your reply in that regard.
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Well, seeing as the subject was revived, I thought I would remind readers of the Hawaiian silversword alliance. And especially that the range of morphological and physiological evolution we see in these plants (that clearly share a common ancestry, a progenitor that is rather diminutive in stature) can be said to exceed that which we see in placental mammals. Not to mention that we usually see in deliberately-bred plant varieties (like broccoli).
Undoubtedly, natural processes can and do exceed the capabilities of human breeders.
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More accurate to say “natural process are assumed to bring about changes which are beyond the capabilities of human breeders”.