I was raised as fundamentalist as they come. Most fellow parishioners and pastors I knew who had a passing interest subscribed to either some sort of old age “day age”, or “gap theory” as given respectability by the Scofield Reference Bible, but a literal global flood was still orthodoxy. Through bible college, though I read of YEC stance, I never actually met anyone who thought dinosaurs boarded the ark - these were considered part of a prior dispensation. It is remarkable how the evangelical landscape has shifted since the 1970’s.
1 Like
Hold on. No one ever said a Dinosaur bordered the Ark. They would have said that Dinosaurs were mentioned by God in Psalms and in Job. The Leviathan and Behemoth. Before you and I had dug up a bone to know Dinosaurs existed, The bible Talked about them.
When I was a child, Atheists used to mock about Christians believing Dinosaurs lived in our time. They still do over Unicorns. I don’t get it. Some writer writes down what is, what exists, what people talk about and then a few thousand years later people treat it like a fairy tale.
The same with a Major flood. And yes it seems like the language is pretty huge… And so what. Why would they lie.
We have proof of sediment covering the whole world. Why would we harass people who have a record of it.
My point about the Age of the Earth is that the first Verse in the Bible makes a simple statement. God made it. There is no time line nothing… Only after does the writer give two different versions of the same events of creation. Its very well possible and probable the story is brush strokes and “day” means the fist action day two the second action. The Day that the USA became a nation. The Day They Ended Slavery, the day women could vote. It simply means the turning point the hinge the moment it was set in motion. They divided it into 7 days. That is closer to the Scientific view than a Religious fairytale view. If it was a fairy tale view why not create it all in a blink of an eye.
MY original point is, Its amazing that they said that everything was under the waters and that God pulled the continents up out of the water separating the land from the water. This shows knowledge beyond human ability. And I think it proves out when you look at the continents the sedimentary layers etc.
Every one wants to know how it all happened. Its not life or death to say a biblical writer included two stories of Creation. They are only a few verses. It shows that they were a long distance from the events and did not feel like they could speak in detail. When Moses speaks about the things he is dealing with its whole books worth of information. It shows that the Bible is written by honest men that did the best they could. I suspect they were told by people and History was written down about the events around Noah’s days, and things were falling from the sky and water was flying up from the ground but God had told them to prepare and they did and so they survived. I see it as totally credible. How that plays out, what rock layer that represents if any would be from Kaibab up. some portion of that. Their knowledge of animals would be limited. And that shows by what they wrote about.
Did you know there are people being taught even today that the Holocaust didn’t happen that there is a religion that goes around wiping out peoples History tearing down monuments and statues and burning books erasing History. I am glad for us that they preserved on film the death camps. My Childrens children maybe indoctrinated that it didn’t happen. And they might say, Oh, Look I never met someone who believed people were loaded on to Box cars and brought to gas chambers in the millions… Wow that I thought was in a Different Dispensation.
While not everything has to match I see no reason why people have to tear down the history written in the bible. Its not scientific to do so.
Hi Scott,
I am sorry to hear about your appreciate your sinus infection and pain. Hang in there by faith, my friend!
I also appreciate your willingness to learn more. I would encourage you to read that book about the Grand Canyon, you’ll enjoy it and learn a whole lot.
In fact, millions of scientists have been working for centuries to uncover how God’s creation – the universe, the Milky Way galaxy, the solar system, biological life – came to be the way it is today. It’s a story God wrote, but He has allowed humanity the privilege of learning the story through careful study.
You also recognize that there is a deeper story, authored by God, behind the story scientists are able to put together. I join you in the journey of faith as we live our little chapters among the billions in that deeper story, and as we worship the Author and Perfecter of our journeys.
Advent blessings,
Chris Falter
1 Like
I’m very sorry to hear that. I used to suffer from frequent sinus infections, which then turned into bronchial infection, and I’d need 2-3 rounds of antibiotics to clear it. i’d go through that 2-4 times a year. That finally stopped when I got on a good asthma treatment, and it changed my life. If you aren’t being treated for asthma or allergies already, ask your doctor about it.
I don’t agree with all of that, but we wind up at the same conclusion, more or less.
This gets into cosmology and quantum mechanics - not my area. I don’t think we need to worry about it too much. It’s interesting to learn about, but unlikely to change your life even if you understood it all.
Sleepy, I’ll ty to pick this up tomorrow. 
I have never had a problem with Antibiotics working. This time, I may have got infected from some mouse droppings over a kitchen I was gutting. By breathing it in I think whatever was in it has taken some symptoms from recovering from covid became complicated. Its like Covid turned off my immune system. At least for this sort of bacteria .
My Grandson is sick and I was over there and caught what he had just the other day and I felt it come on, on top of me being sick and have already recovered from that. Its so weird. And, I think the Antibiotics has killed off a bacteria I have had but I think there is another one that it didn’t kill off. I think the one sickness is leaving me open to others and I cant get rid of the background infection.
I have heard people have had to take two or three antibiotics to deal with different things… I may try starting a second Antibiotic before this one ends to see if I can nip this thing. Some bacteria can live in acid or volcano vents and apparently in my nose without being killed off.
LoL.
From here:
So, Were Dinosaurs on the Ark?
In Genesis 6:19–20, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the “clean” animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark.
1 Like
Scott says he’s not YEC. I don’t think we can ask him to defend Answers in Genesis. stuff. Might be a good discussion point tho.
Since CNN and Fox News were not there, we don’t have footage of the event. The written version lacks details. I would suspect it was worse than Black Friday with them rushing to get animals on the Ark and to save the furniture.
Since there are layers of fossils with Dinosaur in those I suspect they were wiped out. But Since the Book of Job brings up Dinosaurs as does Psalms its most likely History recorded these animals living at some time when Men were living.
There is a Myth that Dinosaurs were wiped out. Consider the argument. If there was water to wipe them out, along with everything else in the fossil record, you would have to start back at square one. If it is localized flooding then there should be no expectation of Dinosaurs being wiped out by a natural event. It would be more likely that humans knowing how dangerous they were smashed eggs and killed the species and that Floods and massive changes in the earth did the rest. the Writer of Job writing about them proves they existed without Archeology. Its not mine to defend. It is what it is.
Here is another Idea. the predator ate the others and the population was low such that the hundreds or maybe thousands killed in the flood or floods and capsuled for us are all that ever lived. If not, you would have to explain the milling trillions of bones that should exist if they were unchecked for a million years. The same could be said for humans etc.
I’m not asking him to defend it, merely pointing out that lots of people have said that dinosaurs boarded the ark.
1 Like
Yes, and I might be wrong too. 
LOL! I love your turn of phrase! 
I don’t want to argue you out of your beliefs, that’s really none of my business, so bear with me while I describe this.
Roy mentioned Answers in Genesis (AiG), the YEC ministry of Ken Hem and creators of the “Genesis Museum” and the “Noah’s Ark Park”. You’ve probably heard of them. Ham says that to be Christian one must interpret Genesis as literal events in history, the Earth is ~6000 years old, Noah’s Flood, Jesus riding dinosaurs, the whole works. This put them at odds with most of science, and you already know. It’s also puts them at odds with most of Christianity, who believe that Christianity begins with the acceptance of The Resurrection. A literal interpretation of Genesis is not doctrine for Christianity, and a literal interpretation of Genesis is not required. Most Christian denominations DON’T take that literal interpretation of Genesis.
You already seem to understand that what we learn from religion and what we learn from science are different things. That’s great, and really all anyone could ever ask of you. We discuss a lot of science on this forum, and a lot about religion too. None of this is meant to be an attack on your faith. Some of the grumpy atheists might hassle you a bit, but that’s not why we are here.
This Peaceful Science forum is mean to be a place where people can discuss their understanding of faith and science and learn to understand each other better. And you, Mr. @Evolution_is_a_Hoax (Scott), have made a big step forwards towards that understanding.
We still disagree on many things - I’m sure we could argue for weeks - but I hope we might argue as friends rather than enemies. You seem like a good person.
2 Likes
But I am a creationist. Still since I wasn’t there, let me guess. they took Dino Eggs… Who knows. I am just trilled that Job in the bible mentions 2 types of Dinosaurs. I think that is cool. Well, its actually a conversation between God and Job recorded for the readers pleasure and God mentions these massive beasts.
I don’t know who the They people are. Maybe if forced in to some corner some YEC might say all things living fit into the ark. How literal does someone have to be. When they say Americans are going to the Polls, generally a 150Million show up not 330 million. I don’t know I wasn’t there but I think it was more like that. Noah loaded up 2 of every kind. Lets face it. No one then and most people now don’t even know how many kinds there are…
Is there anyone here? Anyone who knows how many “kinds” there are? I didn’t think so.
The point is, Atheists trying to bully might be able to force a extreme answer from someone who believes the bible. I believe the bible is true but I do not expect it to be read like that.
When it says God created the heavens and the earth. I don’t think it categorically is saying at that very moment while having a coffee standing there he did it. But in a general sense yes, and in a more literal sense speaking about the earth and the planets Yes. I did this. Its just a general statement saying he is the author, the creator, the one who did this.
Bullying someone to speak to details that are not there is just abusive and its not science.
This rambling is incoherent, as usual.
2 Likes
well, gosh oh gee… LoL.
I do believe Ken Ham does have some points, but you are right he gets dogmatic and pushes things to far. It doesn’t actually say that God created everything in 7 days. It sort of says that but not really. But that was never the point of it. I don’t think the words written are Wrong I think what people extrapolate from them are mistaken.
I also think most like Ken Ham are actually defending the creation of things by God not by evolution and are caught up in dogmatic interpretations.
AND
So are Atheists. They are stuck on a Big Bang of a 14 billion year old universe that spans an observable 90 billion light years wide. A radius of 45 billion light years. And they are dogmatic not realizing that no matter what no matter can travel 45 billion light years in just 14 billion years and have light shine back from any stage of the game with stars traveling 3 times the speed of light from our observation. I hear every excuse in that same dogmatic way. (not trying to get into that topic but to say people can have some extreme views.)
But imagine some guy 6000 year ago using blueberry juice for ink writing on some tree bark thinking that he is getting Old and should write about his life experiences because he expects his kids wont writes we took two of every kind of animal and we made sure to honor God and take two of every clean animal for sacrifice on top of some to carry on after this flood. And it was a massive flood, it covered everything… It covered the whole world.
Then you get us 6000 years later after its been codified by Moses and written down by Jews saying well every inch of every part of the world was under water. It might have been but there is no way he could have known it. Or if challenged at that moment he would have said, well, all I saw was hundreds of feet of water. I did not measure but I assumed it covered everything. And it might have. The statement that it covered the peaks may be true… But I expect he didn’t have google earth to list which ones if any didn’t.
That said there is proof of sediment on the worlds highest peaks and some big fossils…
To me, its wrong to discount their story but also wrong to lie about what is not there. And its just a chapter its not a documentary. The point was to tie a genealogy back and to provide some grand themes of history. Who knows if Moses missed 40thousand years… or didn’t The point is He was trying to communicate what God wanted him to say. God made it, God made man and it all went to crap. And Now God has a plan and he picked a nation of people to work with…
I think we can say the world was under water… It looks like there has been a major world flood… And many other large ones And it looks like there has been massive extinctions I think that is true regardless of the bible but is also reflected in the bible without the writers having a full birds eye view and that impresses me.
I would just like to point out that it’s very difficult to pick out what you’re trying to say from all the stream of consciousness, and so difficult to reply. Perhaps if you thought about what you were trying to say and disciplined yourself to say exactly that, clearly and without surplus verbiage, and perhaps even edited your post before hitting send, things would work out better.
If the bible was not intended to report a genuine, worldwide flood, that’s all to the good. If it was so intended, it was wrong. No such event happened, and the geological record doesn’t show any such thing. Mass extinctions are not the result of floods. The one that killed off dinosaurs resulted from an asteroid impact with worldwide effects, easily found in an actual worldwide deposit, the K/T boundary clay. But that’s the only worldwide deposit I know of, and it didn’t come from a flood.
2 Likes
the KT Boundary layer?
Think it through. SLOOOOW it down. Fossils under the KT boundary… then the boundary layer… Think it through slowly.
- It means before that layer was deposited there was an extinction event/ Events. that would make fossils.
- If you put handy rap around a slice of cake. How does icing get on the outside after the fact in the next 100,000 years.
- How did fish and shell fossils get on the top side of the KT boundary. I heard of flying fish but I think that takes the cake… (see what I did there.)
- Why wouldn’t what is below the boundary layer be part of a global flood… Lets say from Kaibab to just under the pink cliffs. or something like that.
The KT boundary shows the whole world was under water. and that way beyond the Mexico crater the world experienced a massive shock. It could have been a mass ejection from the Sun as far as we know or something from some other mass of space debris coating the world. The majority of it would settle out in just a couple months and the rest in just a couple years.
It totally lines up with a biblical model.
Scott, I also would like to get your answer to that question. Do you realize that you are conversing with real scientists here?
Have you done much science?
At the link is a list of my scientific publications:
Please have a look at them before considering my questions.
1 Like
Well, gollie. Did you know Francis Bacon. A Real Scientist a Christian and the one who invented the Scientific Method! Did you know that you are talking to a Born again Christian. Who also went to school.
Who is the fooler in the Hoax… Well, it depends on which hoax… And if you really should call it a hoax. Just in the last two days right here we found two… One I was caught with… I thought the fossil record was a good representation of what was evolved at the time, but someone showed me that there was foot prints below the Kaibab and I had said there was no bones in any of those layers… They proved to me that the fossil record does not represent what is actually living at the time.
Who would have thought! I was believing in a Hoax, I don’t know who deluded all of us…
A second hoax was revealed today… Someone said the KT boundary layer was the extinction event for the Dinosaurs. Well. Isn’t that funny because many layers after the Kaibab have Dinosaur bones in them suggesting they died in those disasters and the KT was an event after which was after there was a big dent made in Mexico by a Meteor.
And I told a half fib as to the content of the KT boundary. Some of it is from outer space but also some made out of plant material showing that the whole world had sediment laid down in that event just after the Meteor shower. who knows maybe that very year. So technically it wasn’t what killed the Dinosaurs because as far as I know and that is not much, there isnt a land filled with dead animals just under the KT with a nice blanket of black over them.
Maybe I am wrong and you can call me the Hoaxie one.
I dont know if anyone here all these scientists have ever heard it explained that way and likely assumed differently. But what do I know.
And I should clarify… I did not mean to say there are not fossils in the boundary layer, because I said that there was leaves… And whatever was living then generally so there would be fossils. I said, that it did not blanket the dinosaurs in one swoop… like a grave yard. Not that I have seen… But I could be wrong many other layers had dinosaurs so why not another.