General YEC discussion

Yes, the swine H1N1. The human H1N1 (“spanish flu”) is extinct post 2009.

No, Paul. “Swine H1N1” does not refer to virus isolated from swine.

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It refers to the strain that was circulating in swine and jumped to humans in an outbreak in 2009. It was a different strain than the human H1N1.

No, Paul. Swine and Spanish are strains of H1N1. There is no strain called “human H1N1.” You’re fabricating that.

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If anybody ‘fabricated that’, it would be Carter and Sanford who got published. So please alert the CDC to change their diagram and alert the journal that they should retract.

Bottom line:

Your article explicitly claims that H1N1 is extinct, and that this supports the notion of genetic entropy.

The fact is that H1N1 comes back every year. Therefore, it doesn’t support your conclusion. Your article is simply and deeply wrong.

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You go ahead and keep believing that. There’s nothing I can obviously do to change your mind.

No, they used very sloppy language that they never would have been allowed to use in a virology journal, but at no point did they claim that “human” is the name of a strain. They used it to refer to virus isolated from humans.

You, however, claim that because the legend refers to the points in the middle as “swine,” that they represent viruses isolated from swine, not the swine strain isolated from humans. Is that correct? Are you absolutely certain about that?

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Paul? Are you not replying because you now see how wrong you are?

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It’s the points in the red circle. They’re from the swine flu (influenza that jumped from swine to human hosts in 2009. It’s the swine strain).

No, not just the points in the red circle. Every single point on the graph, unless Carter and Sanford’s description was false:

From your coauthor’s legend at creation.com:
The 2009–2010 outbreak samples and additional samples from 2011–2012 are circled. These and the scattered points are all derived from swine H1N1 versions.

Why do you keep digging? All you’ve got left is your misunderstanding/misrepresentation of a cartoon, dude.

The influenza A H1N1 subtype is not extinct. Your article, written in 2018, is simply wrong and incredibly misleading.

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I do appreciate that you think Carter and Sanford are wrong, but I have not misunderstood their thesis. If you think the human H1N1 is still being detected and present in the databases (not swine flu), then please publish in the same journal they did to correct this and show their paper wrong.

What, exactly, is a “jump” in your mind. The virus hops on you like a flea? Because what a jump actually constitutes is a mutation or series of mutations which allows the virus to invade to a new host. This inherently represents an increase in fitness with respect to the new environment, pretty much by definition. “Fitness” is all about the fit between the organism and its environment, not some property of how pristine its DNA/RNA!

A fundamental challenge for host-switching viruses that require adaptation to their new hosts is that mutations that optimize the ability of a virus to infect a new host will likely reduce its fitness in the donor host
Cross-Species Virus Transmission and the Emergence of New Epidemic Diseases

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10 posts were split to a new topic: YEC and its critics: is there a way forward?

19 posts were merged into an existing topic: H1N1 and Genetic Entropy

Why would I publish in the same journal they did? That’s not how science works.

There’s even a special search page for influenza. You never bothered to look, did you?

Out of curiosity, I looked at the Mayo Clinic site and found this

In the spring of 2009, scientists recognized a particular strain of flu virus known as H1N1. This virus is actually a combination of viruses from pigs, birds and humans. During the 2009-10 flu season, H1N1 caused the respiratory infection in humans that was commonly referred to as swine flu. Because so many people around the world got sick that year, the World Health Organization declared the flu caused by H1N1 to be a global pandemic.
In August 2010, the World Health Organization declared the pandemic over. Since that time, scientists have changed the way they name viruses. The H1N1 virus is now known as H1N1v. The v stands for variant and indicates that the virus normally circulates in animals but has been detected in humans. Since 2011, another strain, H3N2v, has been circulating in humans and also causes the flu. Both strains are included in the flu vaccine for 2018-19.

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That’s disappointingly vague. I would improve it to:
“In the spring of 2009, scientists recognized a new strain of the flu virus subtype known as H1N1.”

However, in the form you quoted it, it even more blatantly contradicts @PDPrice’s claim that “H1N1” only refers to Spanish flu, not the 2009-10 H1N1pdm09 that they circled in their graph. :sunglasses:

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Also this from the U. Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP)

The CDC said the variant influenza A strain, H1N1v, was recorded in a patient in Michigan. The patient is older than 65, has no history of swine exposure, and has fully recovered. This is the first H1N1v case recorded in the United States in 2019.

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I’m sure that @PDPrice is going to contact the CDC and tell them that they aren’t using the classification he interpreted from their diagram.

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