Hypothesis: A Deceptive Being Makes Many Genealogical Adams

Their children certainly are my audience.

Do not underestimate the fear in YEC communities as they see their children leaving the faith when they go to college. YEC parents I know are intentionally exposing their children to GAE for the purpose of protecting their faith if they abandon YEC.

It eases their concerns by showing they can protect everything think is valuable, even if the earth is old. Very few YECs take 6000 yo earth as a grounding concern, but as an affirmation that protects other things. They often leave YEC when they see there are better ways to protect the things they really care about.

Will this comfort Ken Ham? No. It will likely make him very upset.

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@Faizal_Ali

You seem to think that nature and God are in some kind of rivalry…

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Then at this point, do you even have a hypothesis at all? If there is no observable difference at all, even in principle, then your hypothesis isn’t even wrong. Actually, it’s not even unfalsifiable. In fact, it’s meaningless. You’re merely adding theological words to a description of a natural process which make no empirical nor even theological difference.

In contrast, when we say that A&E were created de novo, we probably mean some or all of the following things:

  1. They did not have human parents which shared their genetic material.
  2. They were created as adults.
  3. They came into being instantaneously.
  4. If a hypothetical observer was around to see the process, they would see Adam being formed “out of the dust” and appearing full-formed (perhaps similar to some movie descriptions).

In other words, DNC of A&E is in principle observable, if someone was around to see it in the Garden of Eden 6-20 kya. The problem is that no one has a record of that event if it happened, so in that sense it is practically unfalsifiable.

Sure. But not all of them have reconciled evolution with A&E, and might not have decided whether to follow Tim Keller or Dennis Lamoureux.

As Josh said, many YECs are not committed to that by itself. Opposition to science is often rooted in some deeper issues - such as perceived theological consequences.

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Just like GAE.

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I just listed to you observable consequences of GAE which differentiate it from your hypothesis.

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Ah, I see. So you are not really concerned with persuading creationists to accept evolution, so much as you are with making sure they remain Christians if and when they do.

That clarifies things for me greatly.

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Joshua said GAE is “an improper hypothesis that will never be a scientific conclusion.”

Is he wrong about the idea he came up with himself?

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Please don’t change the topic. We’re trying to argue in good faith here. Did you even bother to read my post about the observable consequences?

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This is not EITHER-OR, but BOTH-AND, arising out of principles articulated here: AAAS: Scientists in Civic Life: Facilitating Dialogue-Based Communication.

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That’s what you hope. But if you’re not careful, it could end up being NEITHER or MAKING THINGS EVEN WORSE. We’ll see what actually happens, maybe.

I’m very careful, and always attentive to know how we can do this better.

What do you think @patrick, how have I been doing?

We will. Root for the better end, not the worse one. In this case, wouldn’t it be a good thing if my instincts are right, and yours are wrong?

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Amen! I wish that principle would be applied generally across the range of “origins” discussions. The idea that the onus is on doubters to prove a negative is wrong, in science or any other intellectual endeavor.

@Faizal_Ali,

If arming the next generation with a way to render Christian faith and Evolutionary science as mutually compatible is not preferable to you than just leaving all Creationists as hostile to science … then there is not much that will please you.

@Faizal_Ali

Sure… worse than a whole generation of Atheists have made things? Hardly.

On your watch, the scientific roots of understanding climate change has not only been challenged but ignored.

A post was merged into an existing topic: Scrutinizing Our Own Hypotheses

8 posts were split to a new topic: Scrutinizing Our Own Hypotheses

That is not my position.

“My watch”? Sorry, what?

@Faizal_Ali,

You and your fellow Atheists have had a solid generation to make a difference… and frankly, all I’ve seen is things getting worse.

Whatever can you be talking about?

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