Introducing Boris

There is no such things as the first couple, first dogs, first bears… Evolution occurs in populations not individual species. Systematic theology. Theology is the study of nothing.


Keel moose!


No first moose, no first squirrel… I think it’s hilarious that Craig would like us to believe that he ever considered that Adam and Eve are fictional characters. It doesn’t matter because Jesus never existed either.


Welcome to the conversation @Boris_Badenoff .

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I’m speculating that Comrade Badenoff (isn’t it spelled “Badenov”?) is not acquainted with GAE.


He is a Jesus myther too. So it will probably take him a while to catch up. :slight_smile:

That someone called Jesus existed seems to be the consensus among the relevant scholars. This Jesus myth position is a fringe one.

However, that Jesus did or was anything the Bible says is totally unsupported and highly improbable.


The Jesus myth position is rapidly moving to the forefront in academia and among laypeople. I watched one of those man on the street videos asking college students if they believed Jesus actually existed. At least 50% of them answered in the negative. Jesus is taking his rightful place in pantheon of mythical gods such a Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Apollo…When the gospels describe John and Jesus as apocalyptic prophets, they are not talking about contemporary ideas about the world or the end of the world. They are part of Elijah and Elisha’s fictional narrative world. The myth of the kingdom of God is part of a long tradition of literature. That the gospels might create expectations among readers of the tradition does not define their intended function.


Evidence please?

And you believe randomly asking students on the streets is a rigorous way to assess the proportion of people who believe or reject the myth of Jesus?

“50%” is not useful, what’s the denominator?

I think there is good evidence that an entity called Jesus Christ existed, but what is mythic are the supernatural activities ascribed to him.


What is your evidence for the existence of an historical Jesus? We know the Jesus myth position is gaining traction and has Christian apologists frightened because there have been over a dozen books written recently that try to make the case for an historical Jesus. Perhaps you should try reading the Bible if you don’t know what the myth of the kingdom of God is.

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Do you actually have any evidence that “The Jesus myth position is rapidly moving to the forefront in academia”? I assume someone who makes a statement like that can link to a sort of historical survey of polls of academics in relevant fields? And perhaps you could elaborate on what it even means to be at the forefront in academia? Is it being discussed more frequently than it used to, and if so by how much? Has it become a primary topic of study? The topic of study?

I hate vague assertions, unsupported generalizations about entire fields, and bs, whether produced in the service of theism or atheism.


If you want to debate the existence of Jesus, do that with scholars here on such things. They will offer better insight than I ever could.

How do you know the Jesus myth position is gaining traction? That’s all I am asking.

Reading the Bible doesn’t tell one if the story of the kingdom of God is a myth.


You hate vague assertions and yet you assert without evidence that Jesus actually existed.

“Reading the Bible doesn’t tell one if the story of the kingdom of God is a myth.” If it’s in the Bible it’s a myth.

Premise 1: anything mentioned in the Bible is a myth.

Premise 2: Caesar and Herod are mentioned in the Bible.

Conclusion: therefore Caesar and Herod are myths.

Do you agree with your own logic?


Yes of course. Real people, places and even some actual events are mentioned in historical fiction. The apostle Paul never existed but he supposedly appealed to Caesar. That didn’t happen. The Bible claims Herod ordered the slaughter of innocent children. That didn’t happen either. Daniel is a fictional character but the story mentions Nebuchadnezzar.


Thus, not everything in the Bible is a myth. You disagreed with your logic, great!

How did you establish that Caesar lived but not Paul? You are making a positive claim here about Paul’s nonexistence, so I expect you to show me good evidence in support of it.

How do you know it didn’t happen?

Sure fictional stories can include real characters, but if you are going to dismiss the existence of Daniel with absolute certainty, you’d have proof for that. Where is it?

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Paul? There’s no mention of this world traveling, church planting, miracle performing, Mars Hill preaching, philosopher debating, often arrested friend of the Caesars by any historians at any time. There are no mentions in history of Peter bringing new doctrine to Rome or being martyred. If we eliminate all the writings of the Church no one today would have ever heard of Jesus Christ or any of the supposed disciples. History knows not a thing about any of them. And neither do you which is why you must have faith. The slaughter of innocent children by Herod, not to mention in Egypt could not have gone unnoticed and unmentioned by historians. “Pseudepigrapha” is the literary category of Daniel. We know the book was written during the time of Antiochus, around 167 BC and completed before 164 BC. However Daniel is crafted as if it had been written centuries earlier. There you have it. All your answers.


All this is grossly off-topic. You could try starting your own thread. I’m surprised that the moderators haven’t jumped in long ago. I would have comments, but I don’t want to encourage thread-hijacking.


He is new, and off topic. @moderators will split this thread, but we’ll also be more gentle with him till he learns the rules.