To get out of the weeds here we first need a definition of Jesus.
3 Likes
Resorts to ad hominem after accusing me of committing logical fallacies. Total lack of self-awareness.
The only thing we have evidence for is Jesus as a metaphor of myth and literature. Everything else comes from the imaginary world of speculation. In the real historical world of texts and ancient literature Jesus is a figure in a literary world. What’s your definition?
1 Like
William Shakespeare for one.
I’m sorry, but you’re referring us to a clickbait site that specialises in celebrity gossip, whose sole purpose is to entice people to clicking through to their articles in order to harvest their personal information and browser histories. It’s about as reliable a source of historical information as /dev/random.
4 Likes
I find myself agreeing with you on many points but reluctant to join in due to my perception that your tone is unnecessarily combative.
Live-and-let-live is perhaps all that is needed.
5 Likes
I didn’t say it was a reliable source for historical information. It’s a source of modern information showing that the notion that Jesus never existed has made it into the mainstream. A Church of England survey of 4000 people found that four in 10 people did not believe Jesus was a real person. I just thought it was funny that after getting off this site and checking my Email I saw I had just received this quiz.
Ditto.
1 Like
I know no such thing. Nor do you.
1 Like
Poppycock.
If one accepts the sizes of crowds described in Matthew, and that crowds follow him throughout Judea, that has to be weighed against Nero being not just the emperor of an empire that built dozens of amphitheatres with capacities of 20,000 or more, but also an aspiring actor and sportsman who gave recitals and ‘competed’ in olympiads. A single appearance at Pompeii, Faleria or Capua could have given Nero a larger audience than all of the appearances Matthew records combined.
And that’s for the mythical Jesus. If there was a real Jesus about which Matthew’s account is woven, a Judean preacher, there’s absolutely no way that he would have been seen by more people than a public speaking Roman emperor.
Your claim is ridiculous.
6 Likes
Possibly but the above is only from Matthew and in one year. John has further appearances and over three years. Luke describes different appearances as well. You give me good reason to doubt you’ve ever read any of the gospel accounts.
Whether its a “modern” or ancient source is irrelevant. The vital point is that it is not the best place to get high quality information on the topic under discussion. In addition, the relevant “mainstream” group here is the history studies community (including atheist and agnostics) and AFAIK the existence of someone called Jesus (not the water-walking one) is fairly settled among them.
1 Like
Where’d you get your History degree?
“The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame. True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge.” - H.L. Mencken
2 Likes
And yet you were never able to give me that name of even ONE professor of history or religious studies at a major university who claims that there was no first century Jesus whose teachings led to the Christian religion. Not one.
Silly retort and an error of logic. Peer-reviewed scholarship from the academic community matters in science and it matters in issues of history.
5 Likes
Well, that’s a perspective on Nero I hadn’t heard before. Kinky.
4 Likes
That’s known in the trade as “credentialism”, and is generally frowned upon. It’s particularly annoying coming from a pseudonymous cartoon character. I begin to doubt you’re even from Pottsylvania.
4 Likes
How long was Nero emperor for?
1 Like
Oops! Fixed. (maybe he did?)
That’s like me asking you to name an evolutionary biology professor at Moody Bible College. Ridiculous. Exactly what could even ONE professor of history teach about Jesus or any of the apostles? None of them made it into the historical record. Name it and claim it. What could they teach? Jesus Christ was never mentioned in any History class I attended. Your attempt to blur religious studies with History is noted. Christian Religious Studies professors could hardly claim Jesus never existed and keep their jobs. Jesus Christ is an article of faith, not an historical person. I assume you disagree. On what basis may I ask?
This is not a matter of history. It’s a matter of mythology and literature.
1 Like
Tell that to AllenWitmerMiller